literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org

Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

Mon Jul 17 02:50:45 2006

Sitaram: you were my very first ICQ contact add a year or more ago. You
were working on finances at the moment

Sitaram: just thought I would say hello

Sitaram: I am at (Link:

http://www.myspace.com/literarydiscussions)http://www.myspace.com/literarydiscussions

my blog and profile

Lucky: So ? - did you want to chat?

Sitaram: if you want to... sure, any time, but I thought perhaps you are
busy...

Sitaram: I have often seen you on line, so I thought just once I would say
hello

Lucky: I am - but I will take time for you.

Sitaram: thanks

Lucky: What is new with you today?

Sitaram: icq has not been very productive as far as making friends
contacts...

Sitaram: today... well, I write a lot, and try to post things... I look at the
TOP BLOGS under philosophy/religion section

Sitaram: and one young woman wrote about, What Is Happiness, so I
replied with some things

Sitaram: and I was in a big argument last week with an Indonesian
woman, who felt US media news is slanted... So I wrote my feelings about
that issue, and posted just not

Sitaram: just now

Lucky: do you want to tell me how you define "Happiness"

Sitaram: sure

Lucky: I hear many thing in the media that I see differently

Sitaram: well, it is one thing to see differently, in the face of freedom,
BUT quite another think to have a controlled media with a hidden agenda
for propaganda

Lucky: I would rather that they just report the facts and let me decide
what it means

Sitaram: here is a page with links to all my blogs, the happiness one is
there, I still have to add the freedom of press one (Link:

http://www.toosmallforsupernova.org/blogindex.htm)http://www.toosmallforsupernova.org/blogindex.htm

Sitaram: yes, with no editorializing

Sitaram: just the facts

Sitaram: I watch a lot of pbs educational tv... and they always seem to be
very critical of the mainstream,... and telling a very different story...
which proves to me that there is a lot of freedom in the media

Lucky: I do not want to look at your blogg - just say what is on your mind

Sitaram: ok

Lucky: Do you think the happiness is acquiring something?

Sitaram: ok... regarding happiness.... something Camus said really hit
me... that happiness is a harmony between an individual and the daily life
he leads

Lucky: There is a lot of people pushing for their beliefs

Lucky: Who is Camus?

Sitaram: Albert Camus, who wrote "The Stranger" , "Myth of Sisyphus",...
French (Moroccan) existentialist philosopher author

Sitaram: died in the 1960s

Sitaram: all the high school students have to read "The Stranger"

Sitaram: along with Stephen Crane's "Red Badge of Courage", and
Dickens "Tale of Two Cities"

Sitaram: and of course Huckleburry Finn

Lucky: I am not well read - but Harmony in the mind means much

Sitaram: Finn

Sitaram: yes harmony

Lucky: I read on a need to know.

Sitaram: in other words, happiness is not any given thing in particular,
but a harmony between things; a balance.

Sitaram: so, what is happiness for one person, is not necessarily
happiness for another

Lucky: You make a good point
Lucky: To me the "Persute of Happyness" is about the chase

Sitaram: Camus said something else that amazed me...

Sitaram: he said "Perhaps the greatest sin of all is to hanker for some
future life, and ignore the IMPLACABLE GRANDURE of this life which we
already have"

Sitaram: IMPLACABLE means, something which can never be satisfied...

Lucky: He sounds like a Zen master

Sitaram: so he is saying that the grandeur, wonder of our own existence,
is something that you can never exhaust

Sitaram: yes, Zen masters speak in this fashion
Sitaram: Charlotte Joko Beck "Everyday Zen"
Sitaram: Deshimoro "Questions to a Zen Master"

Lucky: Allen Watts The way of zen is all I have read

Lucky: I see it as removing one dimension form perceptions

Sitaram: watts is good, I read a lot of watts
Sitaram: he wrote an autobiography "In My Own Way"
Sitaram: but, after his death
Sitaram: someone wrote a biography of him, "Zen Effects"
Sitaram: which told some of the sadder truths about his alcoholism, and
divorces

Lucky: I do not read - I experience and interpolate from creative mind

Sitaram: Watts was a genius at explaining Buddhism to the West

Sitaram: but, he was not as successful at applying these wisdoms to his
own daily life

Lucky: I was impressed with Watts’ style

Sitaram: Watts used to laugh and call himself "A Spiritual Entertainer"

Lucky: Good boy - that he is

Sitaram: Watts became active in the early 50s I think, as one of the first
to write about Buddhism in the west and popularize it

Sitaram: and he teamed up with a Japanese Master, Daisets (something)
cant remember now

Lucky: So you read all the time?

Lucky: It is painful for me to read - I am some what dyslexic

Sitaram: Daisetz Suzuki

Sitaram: google helped me out

Lucky: You age a good name dropper

Sitaram: yes, I read a lot, and I have written a lot on internet over past 8
years

Lucky: so your an independent thinker too.

Sitaram: which, of course, anyone is free to do... I mean, all you need is
a computer, internet provider, and time

Sitaram: well, I do as I please, and teach myself

Sitaram: so.... I do not have to answer to Yale, or Harvard, or Vatican, or
pentagon, or Nielsen ratings

Lucky: this is the best teacher -- your self

Sitaram: formal education was such a tyranny

Sitaram: it was a joy once I could be on my own...
Sitaram: and not do things FOR something, like a grade

Lucky: I understand that

Sitaram: on myspace, a woman in her 20s contacted me out of the blue,
for advice... she was infatuated with a married man in his 40s, who

Sitaram: who had told her he would divorce, but

Sitaram: then, it seemed like he was telling a lie, and now...

Lucky: My quest for information helps me cope with life

Sitaram: he wont return her calls

Lucky: who's calls?

Sitaram: so... I told her "All men are dogs. If you leave the box of Hartz
Mountain Yummy treats, you know that dog will rip it open, and gobble
them up"

Sitaram: the 20s girl kept calling and messageing the 40s married guy

Sitaram: but, he stopped answering
Sitaram: so... in our talk, I told her "all men are dogs"....

Lucky: Why are you sending me warmed up hash?

Sitaram: which in a way I believe... though there are good males...

Sitaram: but one other woman got really angry that I said "all men are dogs"

Lucky: who's words are you parroting?

Lucky: Hello - anyone here?

Sitaram: that is pretty insulting... I am not a parrot... I am telling you
what I wrote...

Sitaram: you seem to have some big chip on your shoulder

Lucky: I did not want to read your bogg - I told you up front

Sitaram: I meet a lot of people who say stuff like parroting, and "i dont
want to read what you write, tell me your own thoughs"

Sitaram: I know... but... if I talk to you , you call me a parrot

Sitaram: so, go figure

Lucky: you were copying and pasting

Sitaram: hey... I just wanted to say hello once...
Sitaram: nope.... from memory
Sitaram: wow what a chip you have
Sitaram: I just wanted to say hello once, since you were my first add

Lucky: I thought you wanted to chat - no chip

Sitaram: sure, you tell me I am cutting and pasting...
Sitaram: when I am not...

Lucky: I would rather dance with other minds

Sitaram: hey... I dont want to pester you... I just thought I would try to
be nice and say hello once

Lucky: ok - you are remembering past thoughts
Lucky: Don't you like to brain storm with others?

Sitaram: since I presume you are male, I thought I would run this dispute
by you... where one woman got mad because I said "all men are dogs"

Lucky: I prefer to admit that men have a pig nature also
Lucky: that men have

Sitaram: I explained to her "imagine you are a woman judge, or lawyer
or doctor, and you go to help some man, but in his mind, he looks at you
and wonders what you are like naked on all fours"....

Sitaram: I told her, even the best of males, Billy Graham, the pope, the
dalai lama, have fleeting thoughts like that all the time

Sitaram: that is the dog side of the brain

Sitaram: and males who are noble and selfless and struggle against that
are in the minority, not the majority

Sitaram: that is my position

Lucky: I am satisfied to have an animal nature that drives me

Sitaram: well, I accept my dog nature, but I thought that one woman was
foolish or naive to get upset over my statement "men are dogs"

Lucky: I am not interested in a third party injected here.

Sitaram: its like when playboy interviewed jimmy carter. carter said "I
have lusted in my heart" (biblical phrase), and the public laughed at him
for being a cub scout

Sitaram: well, that is your big chip on your shoulder again

Sitaram: you want to dictate to me what I may or may not say, and lay
down all the rules...

Lucky: you could be wrong

Sitaram: and accuse me of cut and paste and being a parrot

Lucky: I felt like you are better than that

Sitaram: I think you have some problem talking with people, or relating,
like you are defensive, and you have to control

Sitaram: why not just relax and listen to what someone else has to say,
and listen in the way that they are comfortable to express themselves

Lucky: you have decided - I am what people say I am

Sitaram: I mean, everything we say is , in a way, third party, we learned
all our vocabulary words from someone else, we don’t own them

Sitaram: so, everything we say and write is bricolage,.... like a patchwork
of things we have found elsewhere

Lucky: I have gone beyond known words in a quest to understand beyond
normal perceptions of existence

Sitaram: you, personally

Lucky: To think in five dimensions is a challenge
Lucky: being limited to our senses is not enough to probe the mysteries of
energy

Sitaram: well, here is all I have to say.... a hundred years from now,
both you and I shall be dead, plus everyone we can think of, except for a
few babies born this week. Now, if the internet is around, then possibly,
some of what I have written may still exist. If you have written
something, then that may still exist

Sitaram: if you have written nothing, then there is nothing to live on after
you and speak to others...

Sitaram: that is the bottom line

Sitaram: I write a lot, because I feel I have something to say.... and
some people seem to find what I say useful

Lucky: To live beyond the body seem to be an urge of the ego

Sitaram: and whatever is good, I want a chance for it to live on after me

Sitaram: but... you see, however wonderful your achievements, unless
they are written, and understandable to the average person, then your
achievements die with you

Lucky: Ok you wish to be remembered.

Sitaram: well, not necessarily.... but some of my ideas to live on in some form

Sitaram: I write under an anonymous pen name. and I place what I write
in public domain.... so it is not like I want a photo on the back of a dust
jacket

Lucky: I can understand such an desire - but do you really care when
your dead?

Sitaram: I want the chance to come up with a few new ideas, and have
them live on, and make some small difference in the world, after I am
gone

Lucky: good for you

Sitaram: I care WHILE I am alive, thats what makes me alive

Lucky: agree

Sitaram: so, thats my story/situation

Lucky: As for my self - I do not expect to get credit for my brain farts

Lucky: then nature of things is interesting to understand

Sitaram: sometimes, such an attitude is a cop-out.... to let ourselves off
the hook.... e.g. "no idea is worthwhile anyway. its all crap. so I will not
struggle to think".... a kind of "sour grapes" attitude regarding the
intellectual life

Lucky: but I did not invent what is waiting to be realized by other men

Sitaram: I often encounter such an attitude. especially among young
people. I see it as a defense mechanism

Sitaram: to avoid effort, and justify onself

Sitaram: oneself

Lucky: I can speak psyco-babble if you wish

Sitaram: there you go.... you need to cast everything in a pejorative light,
down play it,.... demean it

Sitaram: so... if someone gave you the collected works and life of Carl
Jung,... well, to you its all psycho-babble... so, it is not even worth your
time and effort

Lucky: you have made up your mind - It is good to have convictions

Sitaram: but... what do YOU have,... you have the conviction that nothing
is worthwhile, that it is all nonsense, but that you are superior to all of it,
since you REALIZE that it is all nonsense

Lucky: Jung is one of my teachers - I like the way he thinks

Sitaram: so.. then it is not fair to just say "psychobabble"

Sitaram: not everything said of the psyche is babble...

Sitaram: so.. what are one or to of the things Jung said which really
impress you (without google searching and pasting)

Lucky: I referred to the science of the mind

Sitaram: I can tell you what impressed me right now

Sitaram: so... are you bullshiting me, or have you really retained some of
jungs words

Sitaram: I mean, what is the essense of his "Memories, Dreams,
Reflections"

Sitaram: this is quite a long pause

Lucky: I have a tape -- woman -- interpeted by Jungs thinking

Sitaram: so... I am wait for you to tell me something of substance, from
your memory

Lucky: it is the story of Psyche & Aphrodite

Sitaram: ok

Lucky: women should not seek to much male power

Lucky: The should only take enough wool of the ram to serve their need

Lucky: but today women are told to snatch wool from the rams back ( in
the noon day sun)

Sitaram: interesting

Lucky: Rams are dangerous creatures - Male back lash is not in womens
best interest

Lucky: Now you have me trying to remember things that I did not invent

Sitaram: that is ok. sometimes, that is a good exercise

Sitaram: I try to exercise my mind and memory each day
Sitaram: I become more forgetful each year
Sitaram: each passing year

Lucky: I leave that to better minds than my own - to create new concepts
and ideas is exhilaration for me

Sitaram: but google search is a great boon/aid

Sitaram: if I can remember a little somthing, then google can find it for
me

Lucky: The joy of "ah ha" now I see it -- puts me on a high

Sitaram: In Jung's autobiographical "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", he
says that "Consciousness is a light to illuminate the darkness of mere
being"

Lucky: good word
Lucky: What I want to see is the eye that sees me - when I know - that I
know - that I know zen

Sitaram: Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan (once prime minister of India),
comments on this idea, by quoting from the from biblical Proverbs, "The
spirit of man is the candle of the Lord"

Sitaram: "The Iron Cow of Zen" is a good book by a zen master in
canada, Toronto

Sitaram: Korean Chogye master, Sung Sahn, has an interesting book
"Only Dont Know"

Lucky: Artifical Consciousness is what I find intreeging

Lucky: Who will figure out how we can do it?

Sitaram: One scientist, posting on the internet, from some place like MIT,
describes the following scenario

Sitaram: Imagine that someone constructs some circuits which exactly
replicate the function of a small portion of your brain... and then wires it in
place, to take over for that section, and fine tunes it, till you perceive no
difference

Sitaram: and, gradually, section by section, this process continues, until
eventually

Sitaram: your entire brain has been bypassed, and your entire
consciousness is now in that circuitry

Sitaram: well, what is fundamentally DIFFERENT about the YOU which now
dwells in that circuitry

Sitaram: .... that was the scientists scenario/argument in that post

Lucky: Do you think we are digital or chemical thinkers

Sitaram: Spielbergs movie "A.I" raises a profound question, namely

Sitaram: it is in beginning of the movie

Sitaram: the scientists are talking about the new robotic children which
shall be manufactured

Sitaram: so, one black female scientist speaks up

Lucky: Explain how self awarness is possable

Sitaram: and says "IF we succeed in creating a machine which truly
LOVES us, then what is our moral duty towards that machine"

Lucky: who cares?

Sitaram: I care
Sitaram: obviously you dont

Lucky: define Love
Sitaram: you are well equiped with questions, but a little short on
answers... it seems to me

Sitaram: why dont you try your hand at something positive,
constructive... why dont YOU define something,

Lucky: If that is what you perceive - what makes you thinks so?

Sitaram: it is very easy to sit passivly in your armchair, and point your
doubting thomas finger at everything and everyone and say "so what.
who cares. prove it"

Sitaram: I suspect you are cowardly and running away from things. you
dont want to confront questions yourself, and you are resentful when
others try to confront them.

Lucky: Love has become different to me than in my past

Sitaram: you seem to have no trouble coming up with some excuse for
yourself or justification each and every step of the way

Sitaram: you seem to have this down to a science

Lucky: you have taken position - do you realize you are what you say?

Sitaram: no, only you have the honor of realizing what you say.... how
can anyone else match you

Sitaram: it is 4am... I had not intended to stay on this long.... but you
seemed to want to chat.... and I did not want to disappoint you

Lucky: you have read much - tell me how to escape the ego

Sitaram: well.... you did say you do not want to read what I write

Sitaram: which is ok

Sitaram: but... if you REALLY wanted to know my answers to such
things... then IF I have anything of value to say... it is in those writings I
created

Lucky: I wanted to chat in an special way

Sitaram: but.... suppose I said to you "read War and Peace".....

Sitaram: and suppose you said... I DONT feel like reading war and peace
(or Plato’s Republic, lets say)... so JUST TELL ME THE ESSENCE

Sitaram: well, I could attempt to give you the essence of such a book...

Lucky: I told you reading is difficult for me - so I must spend more time
re-inventing the wheel

Sitaram: but a summary can never be as effective as reading and
studying War and Peace, or Plato's Republic, or the Bible...

Sitaram: that is the value of blogs and message boards and forums......

Sitaram: people can work out things.... and build up some sort of
understanding

Lucky: To read the works of the masters of thought is worth doing

Lucky: I am not a good reader - so I must create from basics

Sitaram: but.. I have to log off soon, and get a little sleep... but... don’t be
a stranger... if you want to talk about things..... except, if I think you are
giving me bullshit, then I will put you on the spot, like I did tonight

Sitaram: that doesn’t mean I am angry, it just means I am putting you on
the spot, to make an accounting of yourself

Sitaram: you ask some good questions

Sitaram: you are not like many of these idle minded people on internet

Lucky: You have not understood where I am coming from - but I am not
giving up on you

Sitaram: I give you credit, that you have some substance

Lucky: as you do

Sitaram: ok... so, dont be a stranger

Sitaram: if you see me on line, and want to chat

Lucky: I will ge glad to spend time chanting with an educated man as your
self

Sitaram: thanks.... any time....

Lucky: good night my friend

Sitaram: I type 80 wpm... so everything tonight, I type from memory.. no
cut and paste

Sitaram: good night

Lucky: thanks for telling me

Sitaram: may be the speed makes it look like paste

Sitaram: touch type
Lucky: yes it did

Sitaram: I realized that only later

Lucky: I can not read as fast as you type ha ha ha

Sitaram: one of my personal measures of progress is "how much can I
explain, from memory, extemporaneously"

Sitaram: if I can do that, then I have truly internalized the subject and
made it my own

Lucky: yes your gifted in that way

Sitaram: well, it takes constant practice over years...

Sitaram: and persistence
Sitaram: that is the problem with many young people on internet

Sitaram: they are dilettantes, and skim the surface

Lucky: then be proud of your efforts to excel

Sitaram: but then they want to hold forth on every matter, and have their
opinions respected

Sitaram: but, they never took the time to build a deep solid foundation

Lucky: "Most people want to avoid the pain of thinking"

Sitaram: and they defend themselves with scorn and sarcasm, rather than
grounded reasoning, arguments, and quotations from sources

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