literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org

Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

Here is an actual conversation that took place in a chat room. I was the person with the nick MrNewbie

The "basher" (or person with a chip on his shoulder) is a fairly civilized and reasonable one, but a basher none the less in my opinion.

This is a mild example of what one will encounter in a public chat forum dedicated to Brokeback Mountain.

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<Visitor_5> why did you name the chat room brokeback?

<mrnewbie> it is for discussion of the movie and short story

<Visitor_5> seems kind of funny to me.

<aurascott> uhm....confession...I never saw the movie..but that's
because I'm odd about fellas lovin each other.

<mrnewbie> well, hopefully you dont like to kill people and eat
them.. but you might watch Silence of the Lambs , with that Hannibal
Lechter character. I mean.... there are all kinds of concepts of
entertainment and art

<aurascott> I like good things, not questionable things

<Visitor_5> ah, exactly.

<mrnewbie> then, you should not watch the movie, or discuss
it, i guess

<aurascott> but I don't care if two fellas love on each other that's
fine..I just don't like to look or anything.

<Visitor_5> how nicely put.

<aurascott> but it's all cool. I just want to see what all the fuss is
about

<mrnewbie> well... annie proulx is a pulitzer prize winning authors
who writes about rural settings like Wyoming. So... you could study her other writings

<aurascott> I really loved the movie Capote, and he was gay. It was
really well done though..no love scenes

<mrnewbie> Proulx does write about other things

<francis> Well, how and why any 2 people fall in love with each other
is really only their business.

<aurascott> I'm an author so I like to see what other authors are up
to, so I'll check it out

<mrnewbie>If you found out that plato and shakespeare
were gay, would you reject all of western heritage and philosophy

<aurascott> good point francis...that's why I didn't see the movie.
figured it wasn't my business

<mrnewbie> visit http://www.annieproulx.com

<aurascott> mrnewbie, that's hardly news, lol

<mrnewbie> well.... we watch movies about hitler and germany, but
that does not make us Nazis

<francis> ... however, the movie is not just about love between 2
men.

<mrnewbie> the movie is about so many things...

<aurascott> indeed it is and a good point you make as well,
mrnewbie

<mrnewbie> both men marry women and have children. The movie is
also about how homophobia can lead people to mob hysteria, and
lynching mentality

<aurascott> I'm willing to bet that the movie brokeback mountain
indicates and or alludes to other people's rejection of their love
..and probably a dichotomy that springs forth from having wife and
children they don't feel the same way about

<mrnewbie> and the same kind of lynchings were perpetrated
against blacks as well as against gays, so... there is a certain pattern
there

<aurascott> I tell ya, it's a nice feeling to be an
established author

<aurascott> I bet Annie Proulx is psyched about her short story
making it to the movies and suddenly mentions of Oscar awards.
thats great for her

<mrnewbie> annie proulx shows herself to be a person of high
integrity, dedicated to her work as writer

<aurascott> hheheh. I am too, that's what serious writers
are--dedicated to their work

<mrnewbie> which is why she refused further interviews on
Brokeback after a certain point

<aurascott> I'm so damned dedicated I don't care if my work makes
a dime

<mrnewbie> and she refuses to consider a sequal to the story

<aurascott> that's good, that's smart of her

<Ink> I think you'll be the only one laughing in that one.

<mrnewbie> well... artists should create for themselves to be
genuine...

<aurascott> if she's really smart she'll continue on with other great
works

<mrnewbie> and not sell out to public opinion or the mass
market place

<aurascott> well mrnewbie, I don't agree really.
I think even artists should get compensated for good work

<aurascott> they have to eat, sleep, and pay bills like the
rest of us

<mrnewbie> annie proulx said she got many offers to lecture,
for lots of money, from places who were simply "trophy hunters"
seeking a pulitzer winner, and such places do not care about the
message or values of the speaker

<aurascott> that depends

<mrnewbie> so... proulx (pronounced prou) is not a sell-out
just curious, how did you find this chat room,... are you normaly on irc

<aurascott> she knows she would have a huge gay army against her
if she did, so she's smart

<aurascott> mrnewbie I own my own room I can surf to any room I
wish

<mrnewbie> i did not say you could not, just curious, i am new
here... you seem rather on the defensive

<aurascott> ah sorry. intonation is duly lacking in this arena

<Ink> Such great power you have aurascott.

<aurascott> not really
<aurascott> I don't "own" anything

<mrnewbie> you seem to feel i am against you, suggesting that
you should not surf, and you seem to feel there are vast armies of
gays conspiring against society

<aurascott> no no, lol. once again, lack of into
nation is a problem on the chat rooms I see

<Ink> Yes, i got the same feeling, but why should that matter.

<mrnewbie> i suspect there are vast armies of conservatives,
quite literally, who wish to impose their values on peoples personal
lives, and even change the constitution

<aurascott> I was saying that, if Mrs. Poulx decided to sell
out she'd have a gay army against her and that wouldn't be good for
her.

<mrnewbie> i am not into conspiracy theories, or paranoia, but
i do see a strong effort on the conservative right

<mrnewbie> i think that if there is any army, it is the right
wing conservative fundamentalists

<aurascott> I don't care about conservitive people either. I
would be happier if George Bush never got into presidency

<mrnewbie> both in america, with bush,... and also in islamic
countries,.... each pushing a different ideology, but it all boils down to
the same thing

<mrnewbie> each side sees itself as "gods chosen", fighting
with satanic forces of evil

<aurascott> I don't care about all of those things

<mrnewbie> i am just making chat... but,... it is more plausible to
speak of a conspiracy of fundamentalist conservatives, than to speak
of a gay conspiracy

<aurascott> mrnewbie, you're a good person, that's what I can
tell, to me that's all that counts. Who's talking anything about gay
conspiricies?

<mrnewbie> well, your own words, aurascott, speak of annie
proulx being pressured by an army of gays who would oppose her
unless she sold out to them, unless she somehow capitulated to
their agendas

<aurascott> you have my words all backwards and wrong sir.

<mrnewbie> i am glad if i misunderstand... people seem to see the
entertainment media as having some gay agenda, while in reality,
most actors and producers and directors did not want to touch the
Brokeback script

<aurascott> what I SAID: IF Annie Proulx decided to sell out
and so on and make the thing a bigger issue than it really is, she
would have gay people protesting her agenda. It's natural. I know
many gay fellas and womens that would do that.

<mrnewbie> well, voltaire once said: I do not agree with what
you say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it

<aurascott> So it is SMART that she hasn't done so, she has
decided to leave things be the way they are. And the gay people can
be very happy with that accomplishment because for once it depicts
the truth about their situation. without it being too glamarized and or
annoyingly intollerable

<mrnewbie> when one interviewer asked proulx about her "gay
cowboys", she answered, "it is NOT a story about cowboys... it is a
story about two confused 19 yr olds in wyoming, uneducated, from
ranch life, who who find themselves suddenly in a sexual situation
which they cannot deal with. Now... if we compare her short story with
Evelyn Waugh's "Brideshead Revisited"... Well, Waugh's novel is
reckoned one of the most important of the 20th century. One might
read waughs book, or see the 10 hour pbs movie version, and
conclude that it is about 2 gays

<mrnewbie> but in reality "brideshead revisited" is a
panoramic..

(aurascott leaves chat)

<mrnewbie> oh well. we lost our aura

<francis> aurascott might have been overwhelmed
by verbiage.

<mrnewbie> you mean, you suspect aurascott left because of my
posting

<francis> I think he was asking you to slow down.

<mrnewbie> well, when someone enters a channel like this,
dedicated to brokeback mountain, and the first words out of his
mouth are, "i would not see it"... then you know what his agenda is in
coming here

<francis> I know, but chat is about writing and reading,
thinking and listening.

<mrnewbie> i mean, if someone feels that way, then just dont
come... dont watch the movie, dont read the story, and dont pester
people who are interested in it

<francis> He asked for you to hear him out.

<mrnewbie> i mean, such bashers dont even belong in the
room...

<francis> He may not have been a basher.

<mrnewbie> from my perspective... he had a hidden agenda...
and he felt like he was not going to get anywhere with me

<mrnewbie> so... if he has any courage, he will persist... he
wont be like a sissy, and run away... ennis and jack were not sissys
they both stood up to fights, threats challenges. That is a genuine
measure of "manhood",... not sexual preference

<francis> well, that is your judgement call... but sometimes
we should give the benefit of a lending ear...

<mrnewbie> a lot of homophobes are sissys, cowardly
It is also possible that he simply lost his connection

<francis> mrnewbie, you have a lot of difficulties with
bashers?

<mrnewbie> yes, i do. I know a LOT of gays and lesbians, and i see
no agenda, other than their desire for equal rights, and to live and let
live. i sure do have a problem with bashers! I mean, IF it is the case
that someone cant stand the topic, and would not even see the
movie... then, what possible good motive can they have in coming to
such a chat room

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