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Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

Sitaram: I have been thinking lately about an interesting verse from the
Bible, the Old Testament, the prophet Isaiah, 65:10... where God says to
him, "All of the righteousness of your people is to me as a filthy rag...."
This is a very interesting verse because it relates to "spiritual pride",
"spiritual vanity"

Iranian_Engineer: what is spiritual pride

Sitaram: in the New Testament, when people talked with Jesus, there
were always crafty, sneaky people, trying to find loopholes in the Law. So
one day, someone asked Jesus, "It is commanded to love our
neighbor.... but WHO is my neighbor?" i.e. define Neighbor. So, Jesus
gives a stunning answer by way of a story...

Iranian_Engineer: tell me!

Sitaram: A man was attacked by thieves along a road, and left dying by
the roadside...

Sitaram: A temple priest passed by, saw him, and crossed to the other
side of the road, pretending not to see

Iranian_Engineer: ah

Sitaram: next, a Pharisee scribe, expert in bible law, came by and did the
same, ignoring the injured man but... for the Jews, the sectarian group of
the Samaritans, were considered heretics, and unclean...

Sitaram: so... next a Samaritan passes by. He does not ignore and avoid
the injured man but stops nurses the mans wounds,.... and takes him to
an Inn and gives the innkeeper money to care for him and says, "I shall
return in some days and bring you more money..." So,.... end of story,...
it was the "unclean" Samaritan who was "neighbor" to the dying man

Iranian_Engineer: yes! I see the meaning of spiritual pride

Sitaram: well... the other story Jesus tells,... in the high temple.... a
Pharisee (scribe law expert) is praying and saying to God: "I thank thee
that thou has MADE ME as i am... i fast twice a week, give alms, and am
not like that wretched tax collector (Publican) over there..." But... the tax
collector was bowing his head and saying "lord have mercy upon me, a
sinner" So... the Pharisee makes the theological mistake of thinking that
God makes people a certain way, as either righteous, or wicked. But, this
is not the case, since we have free will, and it is we ourselves who shape
our character by our choices and actions

Sow a thought, reap an action... sow an action, reap a habit, ..... sow a
habit, reap a character...... sow a character, reap a destiny...

Iranian_Engineer: we have free will right but we dont always have many
choices

Sitaram: well, this is true... we are dealt a certain hand of cards... some
of us born blind.... some crippled, etc... some retarded... but... it is how we choose to PLAY that hand, that counts

Iranian_Engineer: true. I was discussing sometime during lunch with my parents that if my classmates meet a man with cardiac arrest in the street they wont give him CPR

Sitaram: why not?

Iranian_Engineer: well because of mouth to mouth breath

Sitaram: aha, and a woman must not do this to a male

Iranian_Engineer: no no not that ! one might give diseases. But I said I will do it

Sitaram: yes,.... ohhh... disease... we have special kits here,.... to protect the healthcare worker

Iranian_Engineer: we here ..one might get diseases. So one should choose

Iranian_Engineer: to save the other guys life or protects himself. And
you know if we dont give someone a CPR in 30 first minutes ..he will die
later...even if they save him in the hospital

Iranian_Engineer: my mom said my classmates are right not to do
this,,,its risky

Sitaram: you see.... such a choice is related to the choice of Jesus,.... that
is, he knew he would be attacked and killed, crucified,.... but he freely
chose to help others, knowing his fate,... and in Christian belief, Jesus
takes the sins of all people, for all times, upon himself...

Iranian_Engineer: yes

Sitaram: I mean, that is the essence of the Christian message

Sitaram: so we see in world war II the German Lutheran minister, Dietrich
Bonhoeffer

He was safe in USA, away from Hitler,.... but chose to return to
Germany,... and try to assassinate Hitler....

(of course, a minister assassinating raises other moral questions)

Iranian_Engineer: but well all are not ready to devote their lives for
others you know?

Sitaram: but... he wrote a famous letter entitled "Cheap Grace" meaning
a grace which does not cost us dearly in terms of placing our life or
freedom on the line,... on the table

Bonhoeffer's attempt failed, and he was imprisoned and then hanged by the Nazis

Iranian_Engineer: but well he had his aim. So he tried to reach it ...the result doesnt matter much

Sitaram: of course,... if Bonhoeffer had chosen the safe easy path
then, he would never be remembered today

Iranian_Engineer: I was thinking about something really stupid today. Is
it there in your bible that Adam ate forbidden apple. So he was doomed to
come to earth?

Sitaram: There is an independent movie, "Zentropa" (german with subtitles), about an american born german who returns to germany to help with the occupation/reconstruction, as a gesture of peace. There, he meets a Roman Catholic priest and asks the priest, “Both the Germans and the Americans prayed to God for victory, but both sides cannot win, so how does God deal with this situation? The priest answered with that verse which states “You are neither hot nor cold, so therefore, I spit you from my mouth.” God does not look at the right or wrong of each individual but the fervor and intensity and sincerity of their intentions.

Sitaram: ah... yes... original sin of Adam, believed by Roman Catholics, but rejected by Eastern Orthodox....

Iranian_Engineer: yes..I was eating an apple then it occured to my mind.
Why should God put that forbidden tree on his way? I mean why he
forbide him?

Sitaram: This was famous in the arguments between Pelagius and Augustine in the 4th century

Sitaram: well... Steinbeck illustrates the reason.... in "East of Eden"

Iranian_Engineer: oh I didnt read it

Sitaram: where Cain is planning to murder his brother Abel. And God says to Cain, "Sin is crouching in your doorway (at the entrance to your mind).... but you MAY rule over it" i.e. you have the freewill power to choose to resist

Iranian_Engineer: perhaps god was tired of Adam in heaven

Sitaram: but... for Roman Catholics,.... the sin of Adam is called "Felix culpa"..... (happy fault)

Iranian_Engineer: Why?

Sitaram: because, they consider that the joy of Christ’s salvation is sweeter than an eternity of Adam in paradise

Iranian_Engineer: ah

Sitaram: Without the fall of mankind, God would not have taken human form as Jesus,....etc., which is their belief

Iranian_Engineer: I was cursing that poor Adam today

Iranian_Engineer: I have this comprehensive exam tomorrow
from all the subjects I studied until now, and I cant blame any one else than Adam

Sitaram: you see... most of mankind makes the mistake of envying and desiring the ease and pleasure of paradise.... rather than to desire the longsuffering patient character of a saint like Job of the Old Testament in his afflictions

Sitaram: now, one might speculate, that Eve was the first to taste.... and Adam KNEW it was wrong,.... but chose to join her in the sin, rather than to be separated from her forever...

Iranian_Engineer: poor Eve

Iranian_Engineer: Adam and his happy fault!!!

Iranian_Engineer: well I desire none

Iranian_Engineer: I hate that sweet aspect of heaven or that painful life of Job

Sitaram: that is because at heart you are a good Buddhist. you seek the non-suffering,non-pleasure of nirvana

Iranian_Engineer: Nooooooo

Iranian_Engineer: oh?

Iranian_Engineer: I dont know about it

Sitaram: here is the great contrast between Buddha and Christ....

Sitaram: Christ said, "I come to give you LIFE and life more abundantly"

Sitaram: Buddha, once he sees the causal nexus of rebirth, says "Oh builder of this house (his body), I have discovered you, and this house (body) shall not be rebuild again

Sitaram: so, you see, Jesus was carpenter by trade, with his father..... but curiously .... Buddha sees Mara (the devil) as a house builder, causing the body to be rebuilt (reborn) again and again... the Nirvana of Buddha is neither being nor non-being... it is the cessation of the cycle of the wheel of birth and death and it is that wheel which is shown on the flag of India...

Sitaram: but... Jesus says "In my Father's house there are many mansions (rooms)... and I go there to make a place for you"

Iranian_Engineer: buddhA believed that life never stops?
I mean one is born again and again ?

Sitaram: Buddha believed that suffering, sorrow, was the main problem of mankind... and that desire was the main cause of suffering, and that constant reincarnation, rebirth, was a product of desire

Sitaram: so, if one became "enlightened", and desire ceased,... then there would be nothing to draw us back into the world via another rebirth

Sitaram: it is like that scifi movie "Matrix" (the first one)

Iranian_Engineer: yes

Sitaram: at the end of the movie, the hero looks at all the people... and sees them as a gestalt of energies.... like a cloud of electrons... and sees reality, not as an illusion, but in its elemental, noumenal fundamental true nature.

Iranian_Engineer: yes

Sitaram: well,.... Buddha speaks of the soul or person or self as an illusion, a gestalt, of skandas.... senses, energies. For the Buddhist our experience of individual "self" is an illusion.

Sitaram: so... if you become enlightened that there is no SELF,... then pride vanishes,... and resentment, and anger

Iranian_Engineer: yes!!!

Iranian_Engineer: how I love this Buddha!

Sitaram: you see, what did i tell you, you are a Buddhist, because, you said you do not want the pleasure of paradise nor do you want the suffering of Job

Iranian_Engineer: no I am just some cloud of electrons

Iranian_Engineer: I should study more

Sitaram: yes

Iranian_Engineer: but am more calm

Sitaram: ah, good...

Iranian_Engineer: I guess you are the second version of buddha

Sitaram: you see.... when we confront something every day... like a coroner with dead corpses,.... or an artist with nude models, or a doctor with nude patients... then..... we see through the illusion of desire and lust.... we see the cloud of electrons

Sitaram: but,... if we HIDE everything.... and do not see... then we imagine, and we lust, we desire.....

Iranian_Engineer: oh true!!!

Sitaram: so... the solution to desire/lust, is not to cover up,... but to uncover and lay bare

Iranian_Engineer: I agree

Sitaram: that is the purity of the eden paradise, to be naked, and not ashamed

Iranian_Engineer: yes!!!

Sitaram: naked and unashamed

Sitaram: a good title... Naked and Unashamed

Iranian_Engineer: pure and plain

Sitaram: I am reminded , Jesus said 'what greater love can one have for another than to lay down their life for the sake of that other"

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