literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org

Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

shadesofblack_03 : I've just been battling between materialism and spirituality for the last couple of months....

literarydiscussions: yes... this is a constant battle for everyone

shadesofblack_03 : Yes, in most cases giving in to materialism may prove to be dangerous and harmful for most people; but, in my case... its efficacy is immediate.

shadesofblack_03 : I meant in the long run it may prove to be harmful.

literarydiscussions: tonight, in the hospital , i spoke for a long time with a man age 65 who has had a heart transplant for five years....

literarydiscussions: he talks just like an italian mafia gangster in the movies.... except he is jewish, not italian

literarydiscussions: but he told me how he has had incredible wealth,... all his life,.... and his big problem was cocain

literarydiscussions: cocaine

shadesofblack_03 : okay..

literarydiscussions: he had been involved in criminal activities
literarydiscussions: he is an example of the power of materialism to corrupt

shadesofblack_03 : Hmm...true.

literarydiscussions: now, with his heart transplant,... he has stopped with tobacco, alcohol, and cocaine

literarydiscussions: 65 is actually still young... but he looked older than 65
literarydiscussions: i thought he was 75

shadesofblack_03 : ....because of the drug abuse.]]

literarydiscussions: well... the entire life style..... tobacco, alcohol, cocaine, sex

shadesofblack_03 : Yes...

literarydiscussions: he had a wife and several children... and was good to the children... they all had the finest educations, and became successful
literarydiscussions: he divorced the wife, but is still "friendly"

shadesofblack_03 : I see..

literarydiscussions: they call such things a "friendly divorce"
literarydiscussions: i mean, he does not speak badly about her, or disrepectfully

shadesofblack_03 : okay..
shadesofblack_03 : Is he alone in the hospital?
shadesofblack_03 : ..with no family and friends?

literarydiscussions: oh no, he is very wealthy, powerful, with many friends, connections....

shadesofblack_03 : I meant people who actually care about him..

literarydiscussions: and, his children care about him
shadesofblack_03 : Oh, okay.

literarydiscussions: he lives alone in a 6 bedroom mansion...
literarydiscussions: which would sell for millions of dollars, if he chose to sell it

shadesofblack_03 : Ahh...I see.

literarydiscussions: but... you see, he said something interesting, unusual....

literarydiscussions: he said that he would not like to be most of the people you see in the street.... because they work all the time...
literarydiscussions: he boasted that he would work for only two hours each morning,.... and make a huge sum of money for that 2 hours...
literarydiscussions: i did not pry and ask him details.... regarding what it was that he did

literarydiscussions: i just let him talk
literarydiscussions: but.... you see, for him to hold in contempt the nature of working life that the majority of humanity must lead
literarydiscussions: there is something diseased with such an outlook
literarydiscussions: an outlook which alienates us from the majority of our fellow man
literarydiscussions: then... he bragged that he has a whole closet of medication to fight against bird flu, if it becomes an epidemic...

shadesofblack_03 : Why... you mean to say it's every man's duty to do his work in conformity with society rules..etc.?

literarydiscussions: and obviously, his great wealth allows him to purchase whatever he desires

literarydiscussions: i do not say that everyone must conform... i simply say that if you cannot respect and empathize with the human condition of most people, then you are alienated from the world

shadesofblack_03 : You should empathise with man's selfishness and his materialistic views?

literarydiscussions: so, with regard to the bird flu plague... he said.... "i have a closet full of antidote medicine.... so let it strike, and i do not care about anyone else, because I shall be saved

literarydiscussions: one should empathize with the suffering of the human condition,.... with people who must labor daily simply to eat and survive

literarydiscussions: it is not a matter of "must" ... but if you CANNOT empathize with the human condition,.... if you are wealthy and powerful, but feel contempt for the less fortunate... then you are dehumanized
shadesofblack_03 : I get it..

literarydiscussions: Emmanuel Kant said, with regard to ethics, morality, "Other people must always be treated as ends in themselves, and never a means to some end"

literarydiscussions: said differently, "We SHOULD use things and LOVE people, but instead we LOVE things and USE people."

shadesofblack_03 : BEAUTIFUL

shadesofblack_03 : please go on..

literarydiscussions: well.... that says a lot right there...

literarydiscussions: the old saying, that I often repeat: "Sow a thought, reap an action; sow an action, reap a habit; sow a habit, reap a character; sow a character, reap a destiny."

shadesofblack_03 : That's good too

shadesofblack_03 : You always have something inspirational to say...

literarydiscussions: There was once a very wealthy king and queen.... but... they lost their wealth and kingdom, went into exile, and were living in poverty in a simply hut....

literarydiscussions: the king was always very religious.... and one day... the wife came out the hut, and saw her husband praying and making offerings.... and she said

literarydiscussions: "Why do you continue in your religious practice, since everything has been taken away from us, and we have sunk to these miserable circumstances."

literarydiscussions: So, he pointed to the distand Himilaya Mountanins, and said,.... Are these mountains not very beautiful...

literarydiscussions: and she said yes...

literarydiscussions: and he said.... "Should I cease to admire and enjoy their majesty, simply because of our misfortune.... is the the fault of the mountains that we are now poor?"

literarydiscussions: In Tulsidas' Ramacharitamanssa,... we see that the humble crow, Bushundi, has great faith, and is a singer of the dohas of the Ramayan. Garuda is noble, majestic, powerful, the mount of Vishnu. But Garuda sees Ram lying unconsious, overcome by the serpent weapons, and Garuda loses his faith. The great Garuda must come to the humble Bushundi for advice...

shadesofblack_03 : Okay..

literarydiscussions: so, once we enter into the divine lila, then we are protected from the poison of the material world

shadesofblack_03 : lila?

literarydiscussions: passtimes of the Lord...
literarydiscussions: the divine story, poetry...

literarydiscussions: christians, jews, and muslims, all escape the poison of the material world, (those who succeed), by entering into a lila

literarydiscussions: for some it is Jesus, for some it is Moses, for others it is Muhammad.... but it is all lila...

shadesofblack_03 : The divine story of the Lord?

shadesofblack_03 : Okay..

shadesofblack_03 : Different personalities?

literarydiscussions: It is all equivalent to the song of Bushundi which heals Garuda

literarydiscussions: a diamond is one, but has many facets
literarydiscussions: which is why it glistens and sparkles

shadesofblack_03 : So, Lord Buddha is also part of the Lila..right..
literarydiscussions: certainly
shadesofblack_03 : Cool.
literarydiscussions: Buddha said, "We suffer precisely because we desire things that we do not have, and we have things that we do not desire."
shadesofblack_03 : Can you help me with something?
literarydiscussions: Even the Rakshasa demons are religious. Ravanna is religious. Satan quotes the Bible verses to Jesus.
literarydiscussions: Help with what?
shadesofblack_03 : There is this person...who is having exitential issues...
shadesofblack_03 : You seem wise enough to clear their doubts....
literarydiscussions: Let me explain to you with another story...
shadesofblack_03 : okay...
shadesofblack_03 : sure.
literarydiscussions: Once there was a very wise guru, who lived in a city,... and various chelas, disciples, students, would come regularly to his home, to listen and learn...
literarydiscussions: one day, at their sangha, their meeting,... a stranger arrived.... someone they had never seen before...
literarydiscussions: he asked the Guru many unusual questions, excellent questions, questions which no one else had ever asked...
literarydiscussions: The stranger came two or three more times, and then disappeared.....
literarydiscussions: the regular students came to the Guru and asked...
literarydiscussions: What about that stranger,....? where has he gone,.... ? whatever shall become of him?

literarydiscussions: The Guru said: There is no turning back for him now. He as been attracted, like a moth to the flame,.... he has come here and begun to ask the necessary questions...

literarydiscussions: for him there is no escape, no turning back...
literarydiscussions: whereever he goes, he shall be drawn closer and closer to the flame of moksha, of liberation , of enlightenment

literarydiscussions: but.... why..... why him... why now?
literarydiscussions: because he is ripe...
literarydiscussions: because he is ready...
literarydiscussions: because he has passed through those karmic experiences which were necessary to prepare him

literarydiscussions: just like a tree filled with fruit...
literarydiscussions: which is the first to fall, and why does it fall...
literarydiscussions: because it has gradually ripened...
literarydiscussions: so... when someone is ready.... then.... they come of their own, on their own...

literarydiscussions: they find the Guru without asking, without seeking
literarydiscussions: it is a natural process, it cannot be forced or hurried.
literarydiscussions: it happens, just as the fruit falls, and the leaves turn color
literarydiscussions: it happens like the weather and the seasons...
literarydiscussions: so, when your friend is ready, then what is necessary shall happen in a most natural fashion
literarydiscussions: why is it that you and you alone, have come to me, and have asked what you are asking... when so many others pass by, and show no interest.
shadesofblack_03 : Why did he say no escape?
shadesofblack_03 : he wasn't being trapped...

literarydiscussions: in the sense than he cannot avoid his future.... his destiny
literarydiscussions: it is a good thing...
literarydiscussions: like, falling in love with someone beautiful, let us say...
literarydiscussions: we may think that we do not desire such a fate... that we prefer our freedom....

literarydiscussions: but, we are in a causal nexus of events which are inevitable...
literarydiscussions: and actually, our final state will be one which is better, more to be desired...
literarydiscussions: but we cannot see this yet,....
literarydiscussions: only when we understand, and surrender...
literarydiscussions: surrender is an important word

shadesofblack_03 : Okay..so, all this gnawing, taunting pain that I'm going through is just to make me a better person... or being.

literarydiscussions: you are already embarked upon your journey
literarydiscussions: and you know the ultimate destination

shadesofblack_03 : hmm...I guess.
shadesofblack_03 : But, despondency seems to be my biggest enemy.
shadesofblack_03 : And, I think to myself...
shadesofblack_03 : If I'm really spiritual... why will I get despondent about my life and the situations...?
literarydiscussions: perhaps i should find for you what i wrote, entitled, "The Demon of Noonday"
shadesofblack_03 : Nice title.
literarydiscussions: http://literarydiscussions.myfree...opic617.php&highlight=noonday
shadesofblack_03 : Are you a psychologist?
literarydiscussions: no
shadesofblack_03 : Hello?
literarydiscussions: yes?
shadesofblack_03 : Can I introduce you to that person I was talking about...awhile back.
literarydiscussions: i must go rest now... i am very tired...
literarydiscussions: sorry
shadesofblack_03 : No, it's okay.
shadesofblack_03 : Thank you for the parables
literarydiscussions: they may read all my writings, over the past 8 years... all are available
literarydiscussions: certainly...
shadesofblack_03 : Hope tomorrow is a better day.
literarydiscussions: thanks...
shadesofblack_03 : The thing is he/she is not good in english.
literarydiscussions: so, perhaps you might explain some of these things in your own words...
shadesofblack_03 : I would if I knew Chinese...
literarydiscussions: or better, take my words, and translate them to another language, and post them
literarydiscussions: ohhhh
literarydiscussions: you see..... when a musician plays a piano, an instrument.... well, think of all the things that make such performance possible
literarydiscussions: the musician plays something composed by a great author...
literarydiscussions: he plays upon a delicately constructed instrument.... created by a special craftsman
shadesofblack_03 : Yes..
literarydiscussions: and it has been properly tuned by an expert in tuning...

literarydiscussions: well,... you see. .... a guru is like the musician who plays....

literarydiscussions: the student is like the piano...
literarydiscussions: the scriptures, the lila, are the work of the composer....

literarydiscussions: and the life experiences and cultural heritage are the craftsman and tuner, which prepare the insturment...
literarydiscussions: instrument
literarydiscussions: so... you see, what I can do for you, with my words and stories, will have an effect upon you, because you are prepared
literarydiscussions: but will not have any effect on someone else
shadesofblack_03 : May I ask you something?
literarydiscussions: because... the instrument is tuned in harmony to reverberate in sympathy, when struck
literarydiscussions: i can possible help you, but i cannot help just anyone...

shadesofblack_03 : I understand..

literarydiscussions: for others, such words will have little meaning...

shadesofblack_03 : But, how do you know I am prepared?

literarydiscussions: Rumi said, "Do not seek water, for water is everywhere. Seek thirst! for without thirst, the water has no value."
literarydiscussions: how do i know that a fruit is ripe or sweet. how do i know that it is about to rain. I can see such things..

shadesofblack_03 : Wow..that's another beautiful quote...

literarydiscussions: I have a vision which can see such things.
shadesofblack_03 : Like...E.S.P.?
literarydiscussions: plus, it is you who have approached me, with the proper questions
literarydiscussions: something like that
shadesofblack_03 : Okay...

literarydiscussions: dont you feel it...
literarydiscussions: dont you sense it

shadesofblack_03 : I know you have alotta wisdom...
shadesofblack_03 : And, you know just what to say ...

shadesofblack_03 : to revive me...

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