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Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

Just now, I was trying to read through that interesting essay on Averroes
that I mentioned in my previous post, when I was contacted in
messenger by my long time Internet friend, Muslim, in her twenties, in
Pakistan, with an urgent request for advice.

I should make clear that I am old enough to be her father. It is not any
sort of romantic thing. I will also mention that it is my friendship with her,
and with a young woman in Tehran, Muslim, which in part led me to join
here at progressiveislam.org, to try and share, and talk things out.

I shall call my friend in need of advice Miss Lonely Hearts.

I told her that I would post her circumstances, keeping her anonymous,
and forward to her any useful advice I receive.

She maintains an outward appearance of being Muslim, but inwardly she
is very secular. She does become angry if one speaks ill of the Prophet,
or Jinnah, founding father of Pakistan, but when I question her, she
admits that there is a heavy price to pay for talking ill of such figures.

She is obsessed with the idea that there can be some sort of revolution in
Pakistan, to radically change things, politically, religiously. As I see it, her
unrealistic goal of bringing about such a revolution is part of her problem.

Another part of her problem is romance. She is in love with a man in his
50s who has been divorced three times and has children. This man says
he will kill himself if she does not marry him. He wants her to leave
Pakistan with him, because it is dangerous there, and move to the U.K. or
to the U.S. Her parents do not approve of this older man at all.

Her situation is further complicated by the fact that she has an appetite for
sexual adventures with a variety of partners and genders. He is aware of
her desire and is happy to allow her such freedom. She says that he
would also be free to have other partners, as long as he loved only her.

She speaks of her desire to have children, but when I question her
carefully, she indicates some selfish reasons for wanting children: namely,
that in Pakistan a mother of young children is treated very leniently, and
secondly, that people will think you are odd if you do not have children.

Miss Lonely Hearts said no to him, on the grounds that she could never
leave Pakistan, and her dream of a revolution.

My advice to her, in a nutshell, is to marry this man and leave the
country, on the grounds that it is dangerous for her, with her
revolutionary ideas. Also, she seems so obsessed with this man, that if
she does not give it a try, then she will go her whole life wondering if she
made a big mistake. But, if she marries him, and after three years she
cannot stand him, then she will have it out of her system, and still be in
her 20’s, and young enough to build some other life. I did advice that she
not have children with him until after 3 years, to see if things are stable.

Having given the above synopsis of her situation and my advice, I shall
quote a few illustrative statements from our conversation.

Pakistani_Girl: I cant live anywhere else but Pakistan because I want to
work towards political and cultural reform.

Sitaram: Are you resolved to stay in Pakistan at any cost?

Pakistani_Girl: I can emigrate but temporarily. I can’t leave Pak but I
cant see him unhappy.

Sitaram: Well, then, I honestly think you should proceed, to get him
back, and, to emigrate temporarily. Perhaps, explain to him that you love
him so much, that you will give his way a try even though it breaks your
heart to leave Pakistan.

I seriously suspect that you are doing this, in part, because of some
problem you have with low self-esteem, but that is just a wild guess,
hunch.

The big age difference spells troubles, and added to that, his infidelities,
divorces, spells trouble and unhappiness.

Given all the facts, I say that you concentrate all your efforts on your
political dream. And forget him. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

You must be fully committed to either one or the other goal.

For you to want BOTH him, and revolution.... is unreasonable, impractical,
neurotic, seriously!

Pakistani_Girl: I need to have kids.

Sitaram: Now, you add a 3rd obsession, having kids!

Sitaram: So, you are going to juggle this problematic older man, plus
children, plus the reform of Pakistan?

Sitaram: I say, forget him, postpone childbearing for 8 years and work
on the revolution, or politics. You are young, you still have time. Once
baby comes out, you cant change your mind and shove it back up. Your
entire life changes with the baby

You need to choose one thing, and then concentrate on it.

Let me explain to you that one symptom of a neurotic personality, is that
they constantly return to the same questions, hashing them over and over
and over, with no decision, never moving on... I HAVE SEEN THIS so
many times with different people

Pakistani_Girl: one reason I want to have kids soon is that if I get killed
or jailed......then I might just leave the earth without kids.

Sitaram: I never had any children, and I have no regrets. I have a step
son, so that was good enough.

Honestly, I suspect you will get killed or jailed, given your revolutionary
nature. Also, that you are a woman doing all this in a patriarchal society.

Pakistani_Girl: I should have kids. With kids they will be kinder to me. In
Pakistani code, a mother of young kids doesn’t get a death sentence at all
for any crime.

Sitaram: Look, .... if you forget about Pakistan, leave the country with
him, and have some kids.... I say that is good... and if he divorces you or
dies, you may survive with the kids or remarry even. It sounds like you
are using the children just to protect yourself. That is not a very good
motive to bring children into the world.

Pakistani_Girl: All I am saying that kids give me a few chances of
survival.

Sitaram: Look, society conditions us to want children, and even gives us
dolls.

Pakistani_Girl: I am in the east . here not having kids is abnormal and
people look down on you.

Sitaram: So, you are agreeing with me, that you are doing it because it is
expected of you, and not because you truly want it. All your reasons for
having children sound selfish

Pakistani_Girl: My parents were both rotten and now I want my own kids
to see what they r like and see what I can do for them.

Sitaram: This all sounds very bad. You cannot take care of yourself, and
now you think you will be able to do something for your children.

Plus, you want to have all sorts of free exotic sex on the side?

Pakistani_Girl: I am not having kids right now

Sitaram: So, you think things will be roseier in 5 years. I get the feeling
that this is going to be one of those neurotic merry-go-rounds, and that
you will go over and over and over the same issues, and never make any
decision and move on. Are you also going to be wonderwoman, and
batwoman, and wear a red cape, and fly through the air? Or shall you be
just plain batty woman, with bats in the belfry? You are sounding sort of
crazy to me, unreasonable. Impractical. I am just being honest.

Plus, you mention at times that you are quite depressed

Pakistani_Girl: Yes I am! What’s wrong with having kids eh?

Sitaram: Nothing wrong with having children, if the woman is strong,
stable, committed, and capable of self-denial to achieve long range goals,
and has a supportive husband and family, in a stable community.

Sitaram: I don’t see you as strong or stable, or having a great capacity
for self-discipline, self-denial.

Pakistani_Girl: What do you mean by self denial?

Sitaram: So, when you get some sexual urge, what are you going to say
to your children? "Excuse me, darlings, but mommy has to go have
cunnelinguis now"

Sitaram: Self denial means we go without things that we desire, for the
sake of helping our children.

Pakistani_Girl: I CAN do that !

Sitaram: You THINK you can do that. You THINK you can do all sorts of
things but I think you are deceiving yourself. I think you are in denial.

Being in denial means you are not willing to take an honest look in the
mirror , at your problems, and admit the nature of your problems.

Like the person who drinks a pint of liquor a day, but insists they are not
alcoholic and can stop any time they want. That is an example of denial

Pakistani_Girl: What do I do about it?

Sitaram: Perhaps counseling might help, for one suggestion. IN FACT...
listen, seriously! If you save our dialogue, and edit it... to tell the story of
your situation.. and show it to an experienced counselor, and see what
they say. Honestly! I mean, this chat tells the whole story

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