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(free) >   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Reform in Islam          literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> Dialogues View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Sitaram Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079 Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reform in Islam the_stryder72: good evening... the_stryder72: asl pls literarydiscussions: why? literarydiscussions: your own profile is empty the_stryder72: that is true the_stryder72: m/32/india the_stryder72: would u mind telling abt y'self literarydiscussions: i am male age 56, so if you are looking for a woman, you are out of luck the_stryder72: am looking for discussions literarydiscussions: you can visit my message board http://www.literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org literarydiscussions: there are 6 years worth of writings there... literarydiscussions: and 1500 posts to browse at http://www.egroups.com/group/Sitaram the_stryder72: phew thanks the_stryder72: literarydiscussions: and I am trying to write my first book at http://www.egroups.com/group/Sitaram the_stryder72: would u mind telling me a bit abt ur first work the_stryder72: ur book in progress i mean literarydiscussions: my website, Hinduism & Interfaith Dialogues, needs to find a new host.... but there is a free site of it at http://www.sitaram.0catch.com but with lots of ads literarydiscussions: just go read.... good gosh.... you have the links. literarydiscussions: go to the message board and read SHOWCASE literarydiscussions: did you bother to visit any links and read? the_stryder72: i tried.. the_stryder72: too much of matter the_stryder72: u read j. m. coetzee? literarydiscussions: i thought so literarydiscussions: have not read that the_stryder72: just read a book by him the_stryder72: called '' youth'' the_stryder72: sparse minimalistic writing the_stryder72: i like it the_stryder72: am rather fed up of too much of elaboration literarydiscussions: or.... perhaps you are simply lazy... that is another possibility the_stryder72: not really the_stryder72: have read a bit the_stryder72: i think sparse pared down prose actually conveys so much more literarydiscussions: and, what is it that you shall convey to me, which I shall value the_stryder72: oh the_stryder72: to begin with the_stryder72: '' the_stryder72: 'the artificial excitement'' of fiction is boring the_stryder72: the novel as an art form is dead the_stryder72: long live the novel the_stryder72: agree with naipaul here literarydiscussions: not bad the_stryder72: but u should attest values to opinions the_stryder72: shouldnt i mean the_stryder72: or points of view literarydiscussions: you seem to have a good temper, well tempered,... I say things which might irritate others, yet you keep an even keel, a ballast, you seem steady the_stryder72: nothing of what u have tried to say...is irritable...yet the_stryder72: the_stryder72: what s ur book going to be all abt? literarydiscussions: take a look at the first page, it is obvious i think... http://www.toosmallforsupernova.org literarydiscussions: our sun will fade away in 5 billion years as a white dwarf (too small for a spectacular super nova explosion)... literarydiscussions: and when it does, all human life and culture ceases.... literarydiscussions: yet we seek a form of immortality, of being remembered... literarydiscussions: there are things we might attempt.... but we can never focus on long range goals.... the_stryder72: i read a bit the_stryder72: u arent a writer i would care to read the_stryder72: u are obviously informed..and u can craft sentences the_stryder72: and u have read sartre too the_stryder72: but literarydiscussions: we cannot please everyone... this is true the_stryder72: why literarydiscussions: i admire things about vonnegut, but, there are things i dislike literarydiscussions: aha.... an interesting answer to that why... which i attempted in "Survival Advantages of Mortality and Discord" the_stryder72: why must a first novelist....try so many genres... the_stryder72: there u go agan the_stryder72: survival advantages of mortality and dicord literarydiscussions: but.... if you would read that essay... you would see something interesting about the issue of "pleasing everyone" , of our perennial failure to achieve unanimous agreement literarydiscussions: http://literarydiscussions.myfree...opic153.php&highlight=discord the_stryder72: it is not even abt pleasing every friend the_stryder72: people even dislike chekov the_stryder72: or spender the_stryder72: but that is not the point the_stryder72: the art of writing...of good literature literarydiscussions: and, what do you write the_stryder72: is abt communicating..the interiority of ones terrain....with focussed honesty...not to meander abt.. the_stryder72: and explore...differing alternatives the_stryder72: i dont write literarydiscussions: i suspect you are so smart that you have outsmarted yourself and alienated yourself from the joy of writing, the joy of simply being yourself, for yourself the_stryder72: have never written literarydiscussions: and how shall the world be different, because you have passed through it the_stryder72: well maybe u are righjt literarydiscussions: and what is it that you seek in these yahoo chats.... what do you expect to hear or learn the_stryder72: i honestly care if the world ought to have been diff by virtue of being passing literarydiscussions: perhaps you like Hemingway, I admire is minimalist style... "The Old Man and the Sea" the_stryder72: dont care i mean the_stryder72: i like heminhway the_stryder72: yes literarydiscussions: I just found a bootleg copy of Old man and the Sea, at a chinese, or korean site.... literarydiscussions: i saved the text, so i could do string searchs on things like FAITH... literarydiscussions: words like FAITH the_stryder72: even an obtuse writer like nabokov..or even the very admirable...the late A.K Ramanujan the_stryder72: there forays ito literature the_stryder72: were admirably whole literarydiscussions: nabokov seems such a genius literarydiscussions: most of us know that we can never be plato, or shakespear, or even joyce or hemingway,.... and yet, we write the_stryder72: that i agree literarydiscussions: the perfection of art is both a fire, to enflame us, and a tsunami to extinguish that flame and discourage us literarydiscussions: it both inspires and silences the_stryder72: i have a porblem with definations of art the_stryder72: and words to that effect literarydiscussions: but, it was aristotle who said that imitation, the human inclination to imitate, is at the heart of art the_stryder72: i am not deliberately trying to rile u.. the_stryder72: just am voiving what i think literarydiscussions: i realize that you are sincere literarydiscussions: you have a maturity,.... unlike the adolescents here.... literarydiscussions: and i glance back and see you are 32, an age of maturity the_stryder72: oh am 33 actually the_stryder72: what is ur name the_stryder72: i am praveen literarydiscussions: Sitaram the_stryder72: ok the_stryder72 : have u read a.k ramanujan the_stryder72 : the lingustic prof and poet literarydiscussions: My 450 page website was at yahoo geocities for 9 years, but just last week, the closed it down, because some of my pages make criticisms of Christianity and Islam, I suppose.... literarydiscussions: the ramanujan I knew of was a mathematician in number theory literarydiscussions: a prodigy as a child, and died at an early age the_stryder72 : nope the_stryder72 : not the mathemetician literarydiscussions: i am not familiar with your ramanujan the_stryder72 : the man i was talking abt literarydiscussions: though perhaps i should be the_stryder72 : was a half kannadiga/half tamlian the_stryder72 : arguably the finest english poet in india the_stryder72 : died a few yrs back literarydiscussions: i am familiar with those countries in south india, with kerala to the west literarydiscussions: i have much admired tirukuvaller, the tamil author the_stryder72 : was the prof of linguistics at chicago university when he died the_stryder72 : borrowed my ID from a poem by him called...stryder literarydiscussions: i am familiar somewhat with the linguist Otto Jesperson the_stryder72 : have read thiruvalluver the_stryder72 : not heard abt him literarydiscussions: thiruvalluver seems the most explicit of the scriptures on non violence and vegetarianism,.... I did a search once the_stryder72 : k the_stryder72 : i think ur work..ur entite literary output...is rooted in a certain sense of spirituality the_stryder72 : perhaps u consciously aim for it literarydiscussions: stryder sounds both like the word strident (loud)... but also, a long step,.... stride, literarydiscussions: i am thinking of the hindu myth about the avatar who was a midget, but challenged someone regarding 3 steps or strides.... literarydiscussions: this is what comes to mind for me the_stryder72 : yeah it is a conscious combining of an expression and grammar literarydiscussions: i am simply curious to know, were you raised Hindu, or Muslim, or Christian, or something other the_stryder72 : hindu literarydiscussions: ah, good, i am most comfortable with that the_stryder72 : now why do say that the_stryder72 : are u a closet bjp type literarydiscussions: for some reason, those who are most attracted to what I write are either Hindu or Buddhist in background (or Jain or Sikh)... literarydiscussions: and, I wrote extensively in criticism of forms of Christianity and Islam... the_stryder72 : hmm literarydiscussions: I suppose the Christians I admire the most are the Unitarians (who are not considered Christians by the Christians).... and I most admire the Sufis, who are not considered Muslim by the Muslims the_stryder72 : i think religion affinities in so far as they determine what we read or write...are irrelevent the_stryder72 : we should atleast let literature retain its inheresnt athiesm literarydiscussions: I enjoy Salman Rushdies "The Satanic Verses", yet many Muslims despise him literarydiscussions: and Christians cannot easily understand what he is about... the_stryder72 : hmm the_stryder72 : i have satanic verses too literarydiscussions: yet, he predicts the necessity of reform in Islam, for the sake of world survival, and he predicts that it has already started in the Muslim diaspora, where Muslims are a minority, living in a multicultural setting the_stryder72 : and i the_stryder72 : to begin with the_stryder72 : believe it was among hs worst books the_stryder72 : not for what he wrote abt the prophet the_stryder72 : that concerns me only in a literary sense the_stryder72 : it is nobody's case that there shouldnt be reform in islam the_stryder72 : reform to begin with the_stryder72 : should happen in a majoritarian context the_stryder72 : in saudia arabia for instance...the citadel of sunni wahabism the_stryder72 : only then literarydiscussions: if i am delayed in reply somewhat... it is because i must heat some food for my wife, who is sick... but... i find your ideas and this conversation interesting... continue to post your thoughts, as i move back and forth between kitchen and computer literarydiscussions: television was speaking of wahabism only this morning... interesting... the_stryder72 : can it permeate and transcend cultures, borders and the space in our minds literarydiscussions: on educational tv, Religion and Ethics in World News... the_stryder72 : refroms in a minority setting the_stryder72 : dont u see the_stryder72 : is just playing into the hands of the_stryder72 : lazy western liberals the_stryder72 : like tariq ali for instance the_stryder72 : they are just happy hearing abt the_stryder72 : reform among muslims the_stryder72 : in blakwell the_stryder72 : and the odd ghetto in new york the_stryder72 : would just substantiate all the self fulfilling prophecies abt literarydiscussions: i can see i shall benefit much from your points of view... this is of interest to me.... it is good for me to converse with someone who sees things differently, and does not agree with my viewpoint... the_stryder72 : how the '' world ( meaning the west) feels abt reforming educating the moslems'' the_stryder72 : it is rather patronising the_stryder72 : perhaps if a certain sense of being reformative...in thoughts and actions the_stryder72 : were to emanate from the innards of trueblood muslim societies the_stryder72 : that would be of a more lasting benefit the_stryder72 : to inter-civilisational understanding the_stryder72 : already, among the muslims in bosnia for instance the_stryder72 : people are trying to apply community western ideals into muslim localities...on an experimental basis the_stryder72 : and in the same vein the_stryder72 : in other parts of hat war ravaged society the_stryder72 : there are also experimentations in islamic comminity applications the_stryder72 : anyhow the_stryder72 : this debate is of course endles literarydiscussions: i have been reading with interest, as i prepare the food literarydiscussions: i am very weak in the area of currrent events.... i depend upon others who are better informed, such as you the_stryder72 : u are kind the_stryder72 : what is ur wife ailing from literarydiscussions: she is from the philippines (that is not the ailment, ha ha).... but she is 50, and 4 years ago, got a very rare autoimmune condition wegeners, which destroyed kidneys the_stryder72 : oh the_stryder72 : i am genuinely sorry to hear that literarydiscussions: her sister donated a kidney 2 years ago, and it failed in 12 hours from a blood clot literarydiscussions: now, 3 months ago, she had a cadaver kidney transplanted... literarydiscussions: and it is still "asleep" not rejecting but not functioning much either... literarydiscussions: so they are trying to salvage it... make it work... literarydiscussions: meanwhile she is on dialysis 3 times per week, 4 hours per session the_stryder72 : k the_stryder72 : the treatment must be expensive too literarydiscussions: i met a wealthy man in hospital, who has heart transplant for 5 years.... the_stryder72 : k literarydiscussions: health insurance from her work covers everything... and kidney failure patients go on medicare from government... literarydiscussions: but.. the wealthy man, with heart.... told me he spent years using cocaine, and alcohol, and much sex..... until he learned his heart was failing literarydiscussions: now, he cleaned up his act.... and lives clean... the_stryder72 : hmm the_stryder72 : and literarydiscussions: but... he hinted that he was in criminal business... literarydiscussions: and people would say... you are crook, and drug user, why should they give YOU a heart... literarydiscussions: it was an interesting true story... he looks and sounds like italian mafia, from a movie... but he is JEWISH the_stryder72 : hmm literarydiscussions: i asked him if he would have lived life the same, had he known the future.... the_stryder72 : is there an analogy u are trying to draw here literarydiscussions: he answered in anger, that he would live EXACTLY the same... literarydiscussions: i have no agenda... just chatting.... literarydiscussions: kidney transplant talk reminded me of this fellow literarydiscussions: we were in same waiting room for several hours, and he chose to talk of his life literarydiscussions: no agenda, no ulterior motive the_stryder72 : hmm the_stryder72 : are u very god fearing sitaram the_stryder72 : i mean od u pray aalot literarydiscussions: that is a very complex question, hinging upon ones definition of what god is... literarydiscussions: i am not an atheist.... yet... my personal concept of god, as subjective and hazy as it is.... is not exactly impersonal, and not exactly personal literarydiscussions: in the sense of adwaita, vashisdwaita, dwaita... all that sort of thing literarydiscussions: in some sense,... everthing is built in karmic consequence.... overindulge and you suffer.... abstain and you prosper the_stryder72 : hmm the_stryder72 : do u find peace within u the_stryder72 : it is hugely interesting listening to u the_stryder72 : i dont agree with ur writing style literarydiscussions: i find some measure of peace,... to the extent that my education gives me a focus the_stryder72 : but i agree with ur learning curve literarydiscussions: the art and literature and philosophy and poetry and religion are things to distract us from our misery the_stryder72 : i have to leave now the_stryder72 : sitaram the_stryder72 : perhaps we can chat tomm literarydiscussions: ok... but... we shall talk again the_stryder72 : we must literarydiscussions: yes... definitely... and i shall study what you have said about islam the_stryder72 : and my genuine wishes for ur wifes recovery the_stryder72 : pls take care literarydiscussions: you are a worthy opponent, (i seek a better word) literarydiscussions: worthy match the_stryder72 : literarydiscussions: to engage in discourse the_stryder72 : i hope we can keep this up literarydiscussions: definitely... the_stryder72 : discourse is so very essential the_stryder72 : bye friend the_stryder72 : gnight literarydiscussions: we need not see eye to eye, to gain vision literarydiscussions: yes friend Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org 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