| Archive for literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org Literature, Poetry, Essays, Dialogues, Philosophy, Theology |
| Sitaram |
Introductory dialogueAnirudh: What your profession?? Your chat id is very intellectual.Sitaram: My chat ID is "Literarydiscussions". I work a simple office job, typing, clerical, but I write as a hobby Sitaram: http://literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org/ftopic151.php Sitaram: That is my short story Sitaram: But the message board is what I created recently Anirudh: What kind of books you read Sitaram: Philosophy, religion, novels, poetry Anirudh: Have you read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintainance" Sitaram: Yes, by Pirsig. I have it here Anirudh: I am trying to comprehend the book, but my attempts are futile , I am gettiing that lonely feeling. I mean i cannot understand the book Sitaram: There may be a study guide at some place like spark notes... Anirudh: Can you please tell me somewthing about the book Sitaram: Pirsig's book has a lot to do with Plato. Phaedrus is then name of one of Plato's DIalogues Anirudh: okay, I haven't read about it Sitaram: Since you ask a very interesting question, I am going to add you to my buddy list... so I may see you again on line Anirudh: i thought that Phaedrus is his alter-ego Anirudh: thanks Sitaram: and thank you... Sitaram: let me look for a moment in google... Anirudh: i mean there are sparks in the books that i appreciate but i am unable to flow through the course of the book Sitaram: here is a time line on Pirsigs life which looks interesting... http://www.psybertron.org/timeline.html One thing I will do is create a forum at my message board about Pirsig and Zen & the Art... so I can add to it as we discuss it Anirudh: yes that will be great Sitaram: that time line will help you to get a feeling for Pirsig as a person,... Sitaram: and his book is sort of autobiographical, i suspect Anirudh: yes but my interest in it is the underlying meaning that it wants to convey, i am failing to comprehend Sitaram: it will be helpful if you could join message board now, so you can post later... Sitaram: http://literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org Sitaram: do you have a deadline for an assignment on Pirsig's book, or are you reading just for fun Anirudh: i am reading it for fun Sitaram: oh, good,.. because then there is not the pressure of getting a paper by monday Anirudh: yes Sitaram: I have helped people with papers... but it is more relaxed if it is just for fun and learning Anirudh: there other assignments that i have to submit on monday] Sitaram: are you joining the message board,... are the instructions clear... have you joined other boards before? Anirudh: i have joined the message board, but please dont fill the inbox of my mails Anirudh: it at times becomes very annoying Sitaram: NOOOO... no emails... dont worry Sitaram: it is just a convenience, so you can post, and so i dont get lots of spam Sitaram: at the board Sitaram: no emails from me Sitaram: just that one which activates membership, to guarantee that someone used their own email, and wants to join Sitaram: are you anirudh ... is that your screen name? Anirudh: okay Sitaram: because someone just joined with that name Anirudh: my name is anirudh , i am an engineering student from india Sitaram: ok... just want to make certain that is you Sitaram: since, someone else might have joined by chance, just now Sitaram: so... now, I will create a forum about Pirsig and "Zen & the Art.." Anirudh: okay Anirudh: when did you read this book Sitaram: i read the book several years ago,...but i have just now created a forum for you , for our discussion... which you will see if you reload your browser Sitaram: or if you click on phpbb icon at upper left Sitaram: but, i will take the book down from my shelf and begin rereading it for our discussion. Sitaram: I am certain that you are anxious to gain some immediate insight... so I will attempt to offer, in a nutshell, that Pirsig is writing about a "theory of knowledge", i.e. how we know, and it is connected with a "theory of self", who we are, why we exist Sitaram: but... it is all involved with Plato's notions of Socratic dialectic, and education...formal education Sitaram: this is off the top of my head,... but i realize you are anxious, possibly, or impatient... Sitaram: but... true deep insight will take a little time,... to gather things together, and put them into words, clear words Sitaram: can you see the forum I created Anirudh: yes i understood, but why the discussions of motorcycle and cris were so often Sitaram: well,... you see,.... Pirsig might have chosen to write in an explicit, didactic essay form, after the fashion of Aristotle.... but instead, he chose to follow Plato's example (e.g. "The Republic") and explore his ideas, or convey them, through art, dialogue Sitaram: you see, in Plato's dialogues, Socrates has different nicknames or titles... but one of those is "midwife", who helps to give birth... Sitaram: but not a midwife to a woman in labor of childbirth,... but the "maiutic" function of helping a mind to give birth to ideas... Sitaram: rather than write an explicit essay,... Pirsig, through mimesis (imitation, mimicing), seeks to RECREATE within the reader the personal subjective experience of giving birth, of discovery Sitaram: platos dialogues, and pirsig's book, are EXPERIENCES, personal experiences, events,... which, hopefully, transform us Sitaram: in some fashion... Anirudh: i guess you are right, probably i follow this myself thats the reason i found it hard to find it very revealing to myself Sitaram: but... I cannot easily wave a magic wand and enable anyone to enter my mind, my understanding, or the mind of Pirsig.... Anirudh: i mean i belive in the theory of "questing the obvious" Sitaram: and, we live in a world which has come to expect instant gratification.... an impatient world Anirudh: yes Sitaram: but, Socrates would frequently say, in the dialogues, "Xalapa Ta Kala" (Beautiful/noble things are difficult) Sitaram: which is sort of like Arnold Schwartznegger's "No Pain, No Gain" (in weightlifting Sitaram: and the "maiutic" process of giving birth to knowledge, involves pain, labor, travail Sitaram: suffering Sitaram: also, much of what Pirsig is attempting has to do with the notion of people like Kierkegaard (Either/Or) and Nietzsche.... Sitaram: that there are things which may only be delt with through the medium of art... poetry Anirudh: wow!! Anirudh: you are great Sitaram: so,,... you see, as we gradually build a foundation in such things... then, gradually, our vision is transformed.... Sitaram: it is all always before us, right under our nose, but until our vision is transformed, we do not see Sitaram: it is just like in the Gita, when Arjuna is giving spiritualized vision, and then, and only then, may he behold the Satsvarupa or Universal Form. Sitaram: all of art and science, since the Renaissance, has been striving for such a vision of the universal form... Sitaram: the mathematical physicists strive towards a G.U.T. (grand unified theory)... Sitaram: Hegel dreamed of Absolute Knowledge , at a time which would be the "end of history" (end of change)... Sitaram: Descarte dreamed of a mathematical system which might express all things... Anirudh: may it is human tendency Sitaram: so, in part, Pirsig is writing about the human drama of a great mind which is in the throws of such childbirth, ... in that agony, attempting to catch a glimpse of The Universal Form Sitaram: because, of desires, there is no end Sitaram: all of these things are, in part, a quest for omnipotence... Sitaram: omnipotence and omniscience converge Anirudh: so ultimately is it about desires, ego,and ultimate quest of proving superirority of oneself over others Sitaram: exactly... Sitaram: but, ironically, it is also about the effort to shed ego, as a butterfly sheds its cocoon Anirudh: what will you choose - power or money or knowledge Sitaram: that is the song by Bob Dylan , 'Just like Tom Thumb's Blues' |
| oracleofdelfi |
does choosing knowledge solve everything |