Sitaram
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Protagonist, Antagonist: Betrayed by Life in the EndShades: I talked to my friend, today... about the website. He was very interested and told me that he'd talk to you, tomorrow.
Sitaram: thanks...
Shades: ...it's nothing really... I just really respect what you're doing.
Sitaram: much appreciated, thanks
Shades: .
Shades: In Far from the Madding Crowd, if Gabriel Oak is the protagonist, who is the antagonist?
Sitaram: the existence of a protagonist does not necessarily imply the existence of an antagonist
Sitaram: sometimes... it is just a word for the main character
Shades: I know...but, that was one of the questions I came across.
Sitaram: i see.... i must study the matter
Shades: Describe the relationship between the protagonist and the antagonist.
Shades: conflict..actually.
Sitaram: well... clearly, i suppose... Ram and Ravanna were protagonist/antagonist
Shades: Yes...
Sitaram: Christ and Satan, another pair
Shades: I think the only antagonist Gabriel had was first Bathesheba's vanity, and then Fate, itself.
Sitaram: excellent point
Sitaram: often, Fate, or simple Being/existence, is our antagonist
Sitaram: I certainly think that Being/Existence is the antagonist in Sartre's works
Shades: Okay, so the antagonist doesn't have to be a character....
Sitaram: correct, in my opinion...
Sitaram: look at Hemingway's Old Man and the Sea
Sitaram: the old man is the protagonist...
Sitaram: and who is his antagonist?
Shades: the sea...
Shades: ?
Sitaram: he does have one.... but it is not the sea, not the sharks...
Sitaram: but.... luck/fate
Sitaram: something working against him to frustrate him...
Sitaram: which once worked in his favor...
Shades: Hmm, yeh...
Sitaram: and hence, it is a traitor
Sitaram: it is about betrayal
Shades: Okay..
Sitaram: we often feel betrayed by life, towards the end
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Sitaram
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Sitaram: good stuff
Sitaram: good dialogue
Shades: thank you.
Sitaram: thank YOU
Sitaram: you helped make it happen
Shades: okay..hehe.
Shades: I'm just wondering, does meditation really help a despondent person? I mean the formal, sitting meditation which mostly consists of breathing exercises or observation of the breath.
Sitaram: sometimes... meditation can make people worse...
Sitaram: if there is some form of depression... an organic cause, and imbalance... or schizophrenia,.... some form of mental illness.. then meditation can make them much worse
Sitaram: you really have to be mentally strong for renunciate life
Shades: I see.
Shades: I guess that's what happened to me.
Shades: It makes sense now.
Sitaram: often.... people who suffer some form of mental illness, turn to religion, thinking that it will offer escape, relief
Sitaram: but it sometimes makes things worse
Shades: ..yeh.
Shades: But, that's not why I am a spiritual aspirant to escape the trials and tribulations of life... it is because the highest and purest forms of happiness in my life have been experienced in a spiritual state of mind....
Sitaram: i did not mean to imply you... just stating facts in general
Shades: Yeh..I know. I was just saying...
Shades: The kali-yuga always makes sure the world is filled with an abundance of darkness....
Shades: Have you read the book The Mind and its Control by Swami Buddhananda?
Sitaram: sorry... was doing laundry
Sitaram: no, i have not read that
Shades: Oh, okay...I guess you don't need to anyway. It's an amazing book a neophyte should read. It inspires me everytime I read it....
Sitaram: you see, for some, Kali Yuga is the antagonist
Shades: hehe...yeh... Kali Yuga and everything which propells one away from his true-self(love, bliss..).
Shades: When I was reading that article of Meher Baba yesterday...I came across one statement which you said you got in the epistle of St.John, and it was something similar to this : true religion is when you visit a widow and a motherless child and remain unspoiled by the world.
Sitaram: that is from epistle of James
Sitaram: an important verse
Shades: Does that involve an overly-emotional compassionate reaction ?
Sitaram: you see.. the New testament says.... "You are the salt of the earth"... but also says to "remain unspotted from the world"
Sitaram: no.... if someone has fallen in a river.... or a well.... offer them your staff... but not your hand...
Sitaram: which means.... you see.. if you cannot help them.. you lose only your staff...
Sitaram: but... if you give them your hand, and fail.. then they destroy you
Sitaram: an old monastic Christian saying
Sitaram: you must maintain distance, equanimity
Shades: Ah...okay...
Sitaram: besides... and the emotional stuff in religion is pretty phoney
Sitaram: like the christians hugging and kissing everyone
Sitaram: they have no idea what genuine love is, or compassion , or forgiveness...
Shades: I see that everytime I try to help someone I empathise with them to an extent where I am going through the exact pain... I get emotionally involved too easily and too soon.... so, I guess it's just be state of still being tainted by the world.
Sitaram: for example... all the christians in usa want to erect monuments and plaques with Moses 10 commandments... THou SHALT,,, THou SHALT NOT.... but no one ever asks to make a monument to Jesus beatitudes, the sermon on the mount (Gandhis favorite).... "Blessed are the meek, the peacemakers..."
Sitaram: Kurt Vonnegut pointed this out... a wise man is he
Shades: Oh..yes..Christianity especially in India and many other third-world countries has become a kind of buisiness. The people seem to believe, "The more people you convert the greater your chances of going to heaven." (that also means bribing them to do it)
Sitaram: rice christians
Sitaram: people who convert from hunger and need
Shades: Oh..interesting term, hehe.
Sitaram: it is a term i learned from India
Sitaram: missionaries hand out rice
Shades: What about the ones in China?
Shades: Like because of communism and everything, the people are offered more benefits if they convert to Christianity...
Sitaram: wherever... south america... china... (mainland is communist, and they control the missionaries)
Sitaram: or... Islam... offering cheap land to the Bhumi Putra, converts in Malaysia
Sitaram: Bhumi Putra (native children)
Sitaram: child of the land
Shades: Hence I like Mahatma Gandhi's saying, "There was only one true Christian and he was a Jew."
Sitaram: right
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