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| Sitaram |
Salinger's Use of Hindu and Eastern Orthodox Mysticismaiden_dream :literarydiscussions: oh hello there... literarydiscussions: nice to see you aiden_dream : hello ..how are you? literarydiscussions: for nine years, i had a free website with 450 browser pages at yahoo geocities... but last week, they finally shut it down, i am not CERTAIN why, but I suspect that there were some complaints about my criticisms of islam and christianity... aiden_dream : oh am sorry to hear this literarydiscussions: so.... i am refurbishing, reworking a version of it that has been at AOL literarydiscussions: http://www.members.aol.com/Sitaram aiden_dream : oh good aiden_dream : you didnt lose all you writings I hope literarydiscussions: i guess i will keep it more politically correct... literarydiscussions: i have backups aiden_dream : oh good aiden_dream : I guess you must be angry literarydiscussions: a few of my pages were rather outrageous... literarydiscussions: oh, i quite realize that i was technically in violation of the terms of agreement literarydiscussions: i am surprised it stayed up for 9 years aiden_dream : haha literarydiscussions: one of my pages was entitled "Yo, bro, how many times do that prophet say 'Lo' " aiden_dream : lo? literarydiscussions: which was poking fun at the enormous frequency of the expression Lo in the Qu'ran literarydiscussions: like Lo and behold! a star in the east... literarydiscussions: Lo an angel appeared... aiden_dream : literarydiscussions: it occurs in the bible, but only a fraction of the frequency of the Quran.... (where it actually occurs FOUR TIMES in one verse) aiden_dream : yes yes! literarydiscussions: so... i mock it with afro american talk "Yo, bro (brother), how many times do that prophet say LO aiden_dream : so you mean that litterarydiscussion forum doesnt exist ? literarydiscussions: nooooo... literarydiscussions: www.geocities.com/tulsidas_ramayan that was my geocities forum literarydiscussions: which does not come up any more aiden_dream : oh ok literarydiscussions: you can see the exact same thing, but with too many popup ads, at www.sitaram.0catch.com aiden_dream : ah ok aiden_dream : good then literarydiscussions: here is that Yo Bro page http://www.sitaram.0catch.com/page138.htm literarydiscussions: but, it has pop up ads which are annoying aiden_dream : nobody cares about them I guess literarydiscussions: A Koran Search Engine verifies that the expression "Lo!" occurs in a total of 1363 verses (though it occurs several times in many of those verses) in the Pickthall translation of the Koran. The expression "Ho!" occurs only once. Then entire King James Bible uses the expression "Lo!" only 159 times. aiden_dream : hey hey literarydiscussions: that is an excerpt from the start of the page aiden_dream : you are beginning a religous debate aiden_dream : am not ready for that at all literarydiscussions: no... literarydiscussions: just telling you how i lost my site aiden_dream : am sorry aiden_dream : that you lost it literarydiscussions: but... you are right... it did survive else where..... most likely because no one cares literarydiscussions: or listens to complaints literarydiscussions: or perhaps, no one bothers to complain aiden_dream : no no I meant to pop uo adds aiden_dream : didnt mean to complains..you know how people love to complain and hear them literarydiscussions: what about the popup ads? aiden_dream : I mean it doesnt matter if there are adds etc nobody looks at them literarydiscussions: well, popups are annoying... in the way... literarydiscussions: sometimes, they even mess up someones browser aiden_dream : yes aiden_dream : but its good your words exist literarydiscussions: can you access my aol site http://www.members.aol.com/Sitaram or is it blocked..... (that page has no religion argument) aiden_dream : literarydiscussions: see if it comes up in your browser aiden_dream : I dont mind religous arguments ..they could be interesting literarydiscussions: but... see if it comes up aiden_dream : no it doesnt literarydiscussions: hmmm.... perhaps it is blocked literarydiscussions: in your country aiden_dream : true aiden_dream : we have many sites blocked literarydiscussions: see if http://www.sitaram.0catch.com comes up literarydiscussions: just out of curiosity aiden_dream : yes it does literarydiscussions: how odd... aiden_dream : haha literarydiscussions: that one is more objectionable than my watered down aol version aiden_dream : well perhaps they havent discovered it yet literarydiscussions: true... literarydiscussions: i made that catch0 one some years ago, a free one.... and it has stayed there all this time... literarydiscussions: the host is in Utah.... i just wrote to them yesterday, about paying for my site... aiden_dream : literarydiscussions: but i want to make certain that they promise to keep me anonymous, and not hand out my name and address literarydiscussions: i signed up for a $50 per year website once, and you have to make up and purchase a domain name, which i did with a credit card.... and i did not realize that your name and address and phone number automatically become available on the internet in the WHOIS database aiden_dream : oh aiden_dream : I see aiden_dream : its an interesting page literarydiscussions: so.... i let it expire after one year.... aiden_dream : but it opens? literarydiscussions: then, i found an internet host who was willing to register a domain name for me anonymously, under their company name..... to hide my address literarydiscussions: oh.... i am not talking about a religious site... aiden_dream : oh good literarydiscussions: the one that showed my address was a different topic aiden_dream : what are you talking about? aiden_dream : what was the topic? literarydiscussions: well... it was a technical topic, and i wanted a site which would support mysql database, and php programming... literarydiscussions: it was not a controversial religion topic, where people would get mad and send me death threats... aiden_dream : hahaha literarydiscussions: but i was still upset when i saw my name address phone number etc in the WHOIS database.... aiden_dream : people send death threats? aiden_dream : I see literarydiscussions: i have received many many death threats...but only from muslims... aiden_dream : haha aiden_dream : how stupid they are literarydiscussions: i have equally insulted christianity with my criticisms, but never once did a christian threaten me with violence aiden_dream : haha aiden_dream : perhaps it wasnt equal aiden_dream : or perhaps those islamic people are more idiot literarydiscussions: no... violence is a knee-jerk reaction for muslims... and forgiveness is the kneejerk reaction for christians, and turning the other cheek aiden_dream : hey do you know ,.stephen wolfram? literarydiscussions: no offense.. but i really notice that literarydiscussions: wolfram was mathematician? aiden_dream : yes literarydiscussions: he made a program for doing math literarydiscussions: on computers aiden_dream : a new kind of science aiden_dream : is a name of one of his books someone told me today literarydiscussions: interesting... literarydiscussions: i forget the name of his software aiden_dream : I dont know literarydiscussions: ok...found it... Mathematica aiden_dream : aiden_dream : could you find his book online? literarydiscussions: http://www.wolfram.com/ literarydiscussions: that is his site literarydiscussions: http://www.wolframscience.com/ literarydiscussions: that link has "A New Kind of Science" aiden_dream : its his book online?> aiden_dream : all of it? literarydiscussions: that link has sample pages aiden_dream : thank you aiden_dream : I would like to find the whole book online if its possible literarydiscussions: oh... look at this, about stephen wolfram http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.06/wolfram_pr.html aiden_dream : literarydiscussions: wow,.... a strange man aiden_dream : I would like to read his book literarydiscussions: i was searching in google to see if i could find you the entire text aiden_dream : thank you..you are so kind literarydiscussions: http://wolframscience.com/nksonline/page-1-text literarydiscussions: perhaps this link has a lot, or even all, of the book... literarydiscussions: hey, i would like to see it too... aiden_dream : aiden_dream : yes I guess it has the whole of it aiden_dream : thank you!! literarydiscussions: hmmm... i am not certain that it has everything literarydiscussions: because it is at wolfram's own site.. and he sells the book aiden_dream : haha aiden_dream : well aiden_dream : it must be somewhere literarydiscussions: http://forum.objectivismonline.net/lofiversion/index.php/t355.html literarydiscussions: the trick is to find one sentence from the book... an google search on that quoted sentence aiden_dream : what is that? literarydiscussions: but i chose the FIRST sentence of his book... which seems to be famous and often quoted on the net aiden_dream : what do you mean? literarydiscussions: if i had chosen a sentence from the middle of his book... then my google search would only hit full copies of the book aiden_dream : how? literarydiscussions: it is like this... suppose you search on "It was the best of times. I was the worst of times" the first sentence of dickens tale of two cities literarydiscussions: you will not hit a full copy of it... but lots of quoted references literarydiscussions: but... if you take a sentence from the middle of the book.... that is unique, but not famous... aiden_dream : oh I see literarydiscussions: then your google search will uncover actual bootleg copies aiden_dream : aiden_dream : interesting aiden_dream : http://www.wolframscience.com/nksonline/toc.html aiden_dream : it has it all literarydiscussions: well.. how wonderful... success aiden_dream : you know how I searched ? aiden_dream : I just typed the book name and also wrote online aiden_dream : search ..a new kind of science online! aiden_dream : so simple! literarydiscussions: but.. that does not work with everything aiden_dream : it does usually literarydiscussions: i found hemingways Old man and the Sea.... complete.... (it is illegal).... but at a chinese site literarydiscussions: the illegal ones are the difficult ones aiden_dream : why is it illegal? literarydiscussions: BECAUSE, it is still under copyright aiden_dream : oh haha aiden_dream : many books are like that literarydiscussions: just like Catcher in the Rye... aiden_dream : but you find them literarydiscussions: i found a bootleg copy... aiden_dream : oh how I love this salinger aiden_dream : oh show me literarydiscussions: hmmm.... i have the text for salinger on my hard drive.... literarydiscussions: which i can zip and send to you... aiden_dream : yes..thank you!!!! literarydiscussions: i will have to struggle to find the url again... aiden_dream : I also have his short stories which werent published... aiden_dream : I mean which he published on magazines but then colleted them literarydiscussions: you know... if i post such URLs at my message board.. then, technically, it is illegal.... a violation of the TOS terms of service of my host provider literarydiscussions: Teddy... aiden_dream : I dont understand literarydiscussions: To Esme with Love and Squalor literarydiscussions: titles of short stories aiden_dream : no these are published literarydiscussions: the nine short stories aiden_dream : yes aiden_dream : its in a book aiden_dream : I read them literarydiscussions: A Perfect Day for Bananafish aiden_dream : but those i mean arent in the book aiden_dream : yes yes ..my favorite literarydiscussions: aha.... literarydiscussions: well, i wrote about bananafish at my message board aiden_dream : oh you did? aiden_dream : literarydiscussions: you want the link... i will find it aiden_dream : yes ! literarydiscussions: http://literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org/ftopic688.php aiden_dream : I also like to know about laughing man ..you wrote about it? literarydiscussions: laughing man? literarydiscussions: i dont understand aiden_dream : I dont remember the name exactly aiden_dream : perhaps it was something else aiden_dream : in 9 stories literarydiscussions: ok aiden_dream : now I must search for some medical articles aiden_dream : I have problem finding full texts aiden_dream : aiden_dream : must submit etc literarydiscussions: ok aiden_dream : thank you aiden_dream : be well you aiden_dream : literarydiscussions: you too.. did you join my forum aiden_dream : no aiden_dream : what happens if I join? literarydiscussions: nothing.. except you can post literarydiscussions: i just saw someone named cleo joined literarydiscussions: i thought it might be you aiden_dream : no haha aiden_dream : am not an expert to criticize works etc literarydiscussions: it is always there for you, if you feel like joining one day aiden_dream : thank you!!! aiden_dream : I will when I feel I deserve aiden_dream : this is interesting what you wrote about bananadish aiden_dream : f literarydiscussions: there are other threads in that forum as well literarydiscussions: you must learn to navigate and explore such forums aiden_dream : yes true aiden_dream : what do you think about salinger? literarydiscussions: a bizarre person.... because of his life literarydiscussions: perhaps ruined by the horror of world war II literarydiscussions: does not speak to his daughter.... aiden_dream : oh? literarydiscussions: well, she wrote a book about him... literarydiscussions: which angered him aiden_dream : wow aiden_dream : didnt know aiden_dream : wow I really liked what you wrote literarydiscussions: salinger saw a picture of a yale girl undergraduate... wrote to her, seduced her... literarydiscussions: and she lived with him... literarydiscussions: then, he threw her out... aiden_dream : haha literarydiscussions: she wrote a book about it, and was on tv aiden_dream : oh god aiden_dream : how could she literarydiscussions: she had a condition of spasm, which prevented vaginal intercourse... so he forced her to give him oral sex literarydiscussions: according to her... she talked about it on television aiden_dream : wow literarydiscussions: kind of mean, to use a young woman like that, and then toss her out... aiden_dream : strange yes literarydiscussions: when he tossed her out... they were on a vacation at a beach.... and on the beach,... he suddenly handed her money, told her to go back home, and move out her things and leave literarydiscussions: i mean... no warning aiden_dream : wow aiden_dream : I really love him literarydiscussions: i loved catcher in the rye when i was 15 literarydiscussions: we had to read it in highschool aiden_dream : lucky you were aiden_dream : I also love his franny zoeey literarydiscussions: lost my connection literarydiscussions: yes, i too loved franny and zoey in highschool literarydiscussions: age 16 aiden_dream : aiden_dream : I love them still aiden_dream : you find the outmost innocence in his books literarydiscussions: to really understand franny and zoey... you need to understand russian orthodox spirituality... the jesus prayer... the "way of the pilgrim" which i have here literarydiscussions: and the Philokalia,... which is greek orthodox monastic spiritual tradition which is the handbook for the "prayer of the heart" aiden_dream : wow literarydiscussions: philo-sophia, means love of wisdom... (like plato, socrates) literarydiscussions: philo-KALIA means love of goodness aiden_dream : literarydiscussions: early mystic christians saw philosophy and logic as enemy of spiritual life aiden_dream : oh? literarydiscussions: in fact.... the greek eastern christians, saw the roman western christians as to much into philosophy, ... literarydiscussions: if you look at Thomas Aquinas Summa Theologica... written in 13th century.... you will see that Aquinas quotes Aristotle as often as St. Paul literarydiscussions: you will not see references to plato and aristotle in the greek eastern theologians aiden_dream : oh literarydiscussions: just as a mountain may serve as a great DIVIDE for a river, splitting it into two different directions.... aiden_dream : oh I see literarydiscussions: one may see a great divide between greek eastern christian spirituality,,... and roman latin western european spirituality aiden_dream : and salinger tries to explain eastern one? literarydiscussions: well... not exactly.... salinger, in his novels, attempts to TAP into obscure traditions, with his own agenda in mind literarydiscussions: just like Teddy the story of the little boy, TAPS into hinduism, and reincarnation aiden_dream : I didnt read teddy literarydiscussions: well.. teddy is a child prodigy aiden_dream : I like to know the way of pilgrim and what he meant by mentioning that literarydiscussions: who is being studied by world scientists aiden_dream : oh literarydiscussions: but who claims to have been a holy man in india... literarydiscussions: who was close to enlightenment, but who sinned with a woman... literarydiscussions: and as a punishment, he must be reborn as this child aiden_dream : oh interesting literarydiscussions: he has a little sister who is dreadful, like an animal... literarydiscussions: nothing spiritual about her... literarydiscussions: the story takes place on a cruise ship... literarydiscussions: a newspaper reporter is curious about the child prodigy and his story literarydiscussions: about reincarnation... literarydiscussions: the newspaper reporter befriends the child (boy) literarydiscussions: the boy explains how, one day, he saw his little sister drinking a cup of milk... literarydiscussions: and suddenly he saw "God pouring God into God" aiden_dream : what does it mean? literarydiscussions: which, of course, is a very hindu concept, found in the bhagavad-gita and the upanisads literarydiscussions: well...in the bhagavad-gita... Krishna (who is supposed to be an incarnation of God).... explains religious matters to Arjuna... a warrior literarydiscussions: and Krishna says all the things that God IS.... but that is EVERYTHING.... a pantheism if you will... literarydiscussions: Of warriors I am Ram, I am the ocean, i am the moon.... etc etc..... I am the priest who pours the butter into the sacrificial fire as an offering, AND i am also the butter AND i am the fire which consumes the butter... literarydiscussions: this is possibly where salinger got his notion "god pouring god into god" aiden_dream : literarydiscussions: for his story literarydiscussions: but you see... the christian bible has the same imagery aiden_dream : does it? aiden_dream : really interesting literarydiscussions: in the greek liturgy prayer literarydiscussions: it quotes the epistle of St. James literarydiscussions: which says "Every GOOD gift and every PERFECT gift is from above, and comes down from THEE the father of lights, in whom is no change or shadow of a variation" literarydiscussions: but... it also says "Thine own, of thine own, we offer unto Thee, because of all, and for all"... literarydiscussions: which is "god pouring god into god" aiden_dream : literarydiscussions: you see, Christ is the high priest.... who offers the sacrifice... literarydiscussions: BUT, christ is also the lamb sacrificed.... aiden_dream : yes literarydiscussions: so,... the ancient image is the priest , Aaron or Moses, sacrificing the goat or lamb, for the sake of the people aiden_dream : yes literarydiscussions: but,... Christ becomes the mystical high priest prototype (archetype), who sacrifices himself, offers himself... literarydiscussions: as the lamb,... aiden_dream : yes right literarydiscussions: well... the hindu notion is that all things are god... literarydiscussions: which is called pantheism... aiden_dream : I like that notion literarydiscussions: but... it is because of our ignorance or illusion that we imagine that we are different from each other, or different from god aiden_dream : like that in the end of franny he says..fat lady was jesus literarydiscussions: similar to buddhist notion that we are already perfect, but it is our ignorance or illusions that we are lacking aiden_dream : literarydiscussions: but... you see, in my mind, salinger has his own agendas.... literarydiscussions: to HARNESS the power, the energy of such beliefs... literarydiscussions: in order to cast a mood or spell upon his readers... literarydiscussions: you see, when he was writing, circa 1950, few people knew about hindu things, or russian orthodox /greek orthodox prayer of the heart literarydiscussions: if it were commonplace, well known, then it would be boring, and he would not have employed it... literarydiscussions: although, it is known that salinger was quite a student of hinduism.... aiden_dream : literarydiscussions: but... as we can see from his personal life... he was not deeply concerned with the ethical spiritual moral truths or goals embodied in hinduism or eastern christian mysticism aiden_dream : yes literarydiscussions: he wanted to create a literary work which would mesmerize readers literarydiscussions: hypnotize aiden_dream : perhaps not aiden_dream : but he succeeded literarydiscussions: i imagine that someone like hermann hesse, who wrote Siddhartha, was far more likely to be concerned with the spiritual truth of things... literarydiscussions: but i would have to research hesse' life to substantiate that aiden_dream : aiden_dream : I havent read that book literarydiscussions: it is a small book about the life of the Buddha, or someone like the Buddha literarydiscussions: it is available on line aiden_dream : wow it must be interesting literarydiscussions: well, i quote a passage from it, at my website... i think page 19 literarydiscussions: http://www.toosmallforsupernova.org/page019.htm aiden_dream : I want to rea it all aiden_dream : I have read only one fiction from hesse literarydiscussions: that page 19 is about "The Universal Form" in various works of literature aiden_dream : literarydiscussions: and something that I call the "Spatio-temporal Montage" aiden_dream : oh? literarydiscussions: take a look, see if it comes up aiden_dream 's status is now "Available". (12/17/2005 5:37 PM) aiden_dream : yes it comes literarydiscussions: it is not a long read,... take a look aiden_dream : now you must excuse me aiden_dream : it was nice being here aiden_dream : thank you so much aiden_dream : shall read it tomorrow literarydiscussions: ok aiden_dream : am so tired now aiden_dream : literarydiscussions: rest literarydiscussions: take a rest aiden_dream : yes byeeeeeeeeeee literarydiscussions: bye |