literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org

mkmishra · Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 11 Location: Bhubaneswar India

This is a discussion of three to four persons from different parts and different cultures of the world on oral and written discourse. This is from their experience and some studies. When some advocate for documentation other not with a view that orality will continue to be there so there is no need to document .
The discussion is posted here for further dialogue and discussion.
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Oliver, the mick.: Because they tend to tell the same stories over and over, different families personalize the same story.
mk_mkmishra: but family history is significant in terms of a village social history

Oliver, the mick.: You may have a ball lightning story of your own in your family.

Quietman_talks: for a any folk tradition to have significance, it has to be relevant to the community. Something they base rituals or behavior patterns on.

Oliver, the mick.: Or someone fighting Indians or living through an epidemic.
mk_mkmishra: yes, many tales are created in its own context and that becomes universal later

quietman_talks: normally it is the other way round

the_desert_peach: but if the story began as a funny story about one's aunt back in '49, and is passed thru generations of the same family, there really is no cultural significance to it, other than its interest within the family
mk_mkmishra: yes, ritual is closely associated with oral tradition
quietman_talks: it is a universal tale told in a community
quietman_talks: or family

Oliver, the Mick.: I was watching this documentary on the Black death and the entire community knew this story about how this woman survived plague by drinking an ewer of fat.

Oliver, the Mick.: Now that was 400 yrs old.

the_desert_peach: quiet, which mean auntie from '49 doesn’t qualify, no matter how good the story might be.
mk_mkmishra: yes the desert, the uncommon thing you speak of a family is folklore, family folklore

mk_mkmishra: earlier people were not documenting it
quietman_talks: Custer’s story was folk tale

Oliver, the mick.: The whole community had adopted the tale.
quietman_talks: all the big bad men of the west became folk lore
mk_mkmishra: and now they document it

mk_mkmishra: see now all marriage ceremonies are video documented

Oliver, the Mick.: Yes because it's not verifiable history and it's legend now, Custer. It's history but no one survived to tell the tale.
the_desert_peach: so are we to consider urban legend a subdivision of folklore?

mk_mkmishra: that is a sort of family history

mk_mkmishra: yes

tinkerbell_on_fire: marriage should not be necessary to form a commitment
mk_mkmishra: urban legend is a strong branch of folklore

quietman_talks: most stories that became legends started life as folk tales
mk_mkmishra: yes
mk_mkmishra: but i was telling of documentation

mk_mkmishra: I mean legend is associated with a time and space
Oliver, the Mick.: There was one in this book of urban myth, people tell it now but the author traced it to the middle ages in France.
quietman_talks: not necessarily
mk_mkmishra: but tales are timeless,

Quietman_talks: the most recent research on Helen of troy completely demystify her

Oliver, the Mick.: Sorry immaturity overtook me.
Mk_mkmishra: u know that racially all human forms the part of collective memory

the_desert_peach: are you referring to the bettany hughes research
Quietman_talks: yes

Oliver, the mick.: siren, have respect! This gent is a genuine scholar.
siren_of_the_dead: some ructions
tinkerbell_on_fire: now this room is entertaining
siren_of_the_dead: but tales
JosephC4: *sings.....Blue skies....smiling at me.....nothing but blue skies
ALMOST IS YOUR ONLY HOPE: <<in need of help

the_desert_peach: Schwein, do you have a book report due tomorrow?

Oliver, the mick.: Almost, are you in Nigeria and need someone to start an account for you here?

Oliver, the mick.: Mk, don't think you’re being disregarded.
the_desert_peach: quiet, do you teach literature?
quietman_talks: no I don't
quietman_talks: but I do a bit of writing

Krishnakumar_j2003 joined the room
Quietman_talks: including codifying folklore

Oliver, the mick.: Oh you and the entire universe of English majors, Almost.
mk_mkmishra: NO I am enjoying your chat and I will post in some forum

Oliver, the mick.: I can't even tell you how to find it.
the_desert_peach: Do you write non-fiction or translations of folklore?
.
Quietman_talks: both

mk_mkmishra: I really enjoyed that you all have sufficient knowledge on your own tradition, but you may not have given thought to it to document

Oliver, the mick.: Within the past couple of months.

Oliver, the mick.: I'm way lazy, MK.

the_desert_peach: What is it you think we should be documenting?
Oliver, the mick.: Nothing, but you should back up your documents.
Oliver, the mick.: Just in case.
Oliver, the mick.: It shouldn't hurt them though.

quietman_talks: stuff that is likely to get lost with an existing generation

quietman_talks: and has relevance to a larger community
Oliver, the mick.: Yes, it's for programs.

Quietman_talks: that is my benchmark at least and may not be someelses
Oliver, the mick.: I think she does, doesn't she?
Oliver, the mick.: Good luck soldier.
mk_mkmishra: the culture in your family and society which you feel uncommon and have been created by a group of mind can be documented
mk_mkmishra: even university jokes
creep_de_ville: You'll have to restart too.

the_desert_peach: I can imagine some of the quainter details of a culture being lost in an information age.
Oliver, the mick.: I'd help but I'm just so damn lazy, Mk.

Quietman_talks: I worked on something on the partition of India
Quietman_talks: personal stories

Oliver, the mick.: Wow, that's cool, qm.
Quietman_talks: but that have an interest to a larger audience
Oliver, the mick.: You and Mk have common interests.
the_desert_peach: why do we, humans, document stories?
siren_of_the_dead: jeep, how goes it mate?
mk_mkmishra: but in other way you may think of restoring the lost culture in IT world by audio and video
Oliver, the mick.: Boredom?
mk_mkmishra: and that’s the trend

Mk_mkmishra: to restore the fast vanishing culture

the_desert_peach: why commit it to paper when oral tradition sufficed for thousands of years?

Oliver, the mick.: But everything becomes blended and nonspecific to an area.

quietman_talks: culture is always changing anyway
Oliver, the mick.: Because we got things wrong orally.
mk_mkmishra: because we like the stories so do we document it
Oliver, the mick.: That's mean.
mk_mkmishra: desert , when paper came u have to keep the tales both in oral and written
the_desert_peach: what I’m trying to understand is why we have a need to document anything at all
Oliver, the mick.: You must respect my authorities!!!
JosephC4: when someone finds something enjoyable that others will enjoy......or they just feel like writing after they see something
Oliver, the mick.: I love to write.
the_desert_peach: documentation of law, stories, religion.
Oliver, the mick.: I don't care if anyone reads it.
quietman_talks: what we are doing right now is also a form of documentation
quietman_talks: in the chat room
quietman_talks: chat
mk_mkmishra: yes quiet
quietman_talks: we are passing on something to another
Oliver, the mick.: The oldest business letter on record says something like, "The chickpeas will not arrive until next week."
quietman_talks: even if it our own special fart
the_desert_peach: but we can do that orally.

mk_mkmishra: this is the discourse of oral tradition
the_desert_peach: or song.
Oliver, the mick.: It's from a thousand or two years BC
the_desert_peach: what is it about the written word that is so important to us?
mk_mkmishra: when African folktales are documented and were stored in web sites that is accessible to millions of people
siren_of_the_dead: they should take better care of themselves
mk_mkmishra: was that possible in orally
quietman_talks: the first expression of civilization
Oliver, the mick.: I don't know. You don't catch Chimps sitting around writing a memoir.
JosephC4: One of my favorite board games ends when you draw the historian card...
quietman_talks: the ability to pass on knowledge
mk_mkmishra: so desert, every piece of thought, may be required to documented
siren_of_the_dead: he already said god is my gateway
JosephC4: it offers an interesting perspective on history
Knight Of Beauty And Reckoning: its a rare occasion this day and age to see any women with double E's
Oliver, the mick. Immortality!!!!
the_desert_peach: so there is underlying need to spread a story that was once oral, through the written, to what end
mk_mkmishra: each and every person is a writer in his mental text

mk_mkmishra: some think and don’t write
Oliver, the mick.: like Beckeee?
quietman_talks: the old story of the story
mk_mkmishra: some think and speak and some think , speak and write
Oliver, the mick.: Immortality I tells you.
quietman_talks: know
mk_mkmishra: you all are doing three things here

siren_of_the_dead: im a sex worker
Oliver, the mick.: I don't want my brain to die! I must pass my wisdom on.
siren_of_the_dead: ha
siren_of_the_dead: WRONG!
Oliver, the mick.: Are you really, Siren?
siren_of_the_dead: escort actually
Oliver, the mick.: a sex worker?
Oliver, the mick.: I never met one before.
siren_of_the_dead: which is a fancy way of saying call girl
Oliver, the mick.: That would be better than retail.
quietman_talks: siren if you are female
josephconwell left the room
sailorgal76 left the room
siren_of_the_dead: oh yeth
poetdexter: escort?
mk_mkmishra: siren, In Collate on e book guilty with out trail is published , which is a personal narratives of a sex worker
the_desert_peach: I moderated a panel discussion on the written word versus oral transmission. I'm curious about others' opinions
siren_of_the_dead: better than retail
quietman_talks: i would like to document you!
Oliver, the mick.: For one thing you don't have to smile.
Oliver, the mick.: I don't suppose.
siren_of_the_dead: oral transmission of std's?
mk_mkmishra: and that speaks of the reality of a sex worker, how human degeneration is burdened by a sex worker
siren_of_the_dead: HA the shopping bag!
Hope: hello all
siren_of_the_dead: thats brilliant
the_desert_peach: i knew if i waited long enough, the perverts would appear.
Oliver, the mick.: Everyone is, at heart, a pervert.
the_desert_peach: Good night
xxxxxx
mk_mkmishra: I think our discussion is contaminated with sex

Hope: yeah
Oliver, the mick.: Now you're just making me laugh.
siren_of_the_dead: no
Oliver, the mick.: Siren. What do you want to do later?
siren_of_the_dead: well its been not quite 3 years

Oliver, the mick.: When you're no longer a call girl?
siren_of_the_dead: and im nearly done with it
siren_of_the_dead: over it
mk_mkmishra: ok that is a great issue of mankind in terms of AIDS

mk_mkmishra: ok friends I think now my turn is to go
Oliver, the mick.: Okay Mk.
quietman_talks joined the room
Oliver, the mick.: Siren, did you answer, what do you want to do for a career?

godismygatewaydrug: I will be both call girl and scholar. For 200 dollars I will discuss folklore all night long!
Oliver, the mick.: I knew nothing so was not helpful.
godismygatewaydrug: Any takers?
quietman_talks: bye all time to get back to work
Oliver, the mick.: That's funny, Godis.
godismygatewaydrug: Less so when it comes to light that I know nothing of folklore.

_________________
Dr Mahendra K Mishra
D-9 Flat , kalpana Area Bhubaneswar 751014
Orissa, india

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