literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org

Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

literarydiscussions: you see how a young open liberal mind like yours is a proof, a refutation, of the stereotype which some people might have of Pakistan or Afghanistan.... thinking perhaps that there are only warlords living there... which of course is nonsense...
literarydiscussions: there is the same diversity and variety of men and women to be found in each nation and culture and religion
rose_petal450 : yes course , u are rite sir,,,,,,,
literarydiscussions: just as it is inaccurate for people to characterize all americans and being this way or that way.... it is a stereotype....
rose_petal450 : it is individual not nation,,,, good or bad
rose_petal450 : ya u are rite
literarydiscussions: so,... we have here an open dialogue possible with the miracle of the internet....
literarydiscussions: and... with your permission,... I would like to save and post our chat, this dialogue... and the forum, for others to read and study, and see it as a MISSION STATEMENT for the forum....
rose_petal450 : one thing more sir, some time media corrupt minds also,,,,,,as we are loving people always, because we feel pity for other human,,,being literature student i am very sensitive
rose_petal450 : ya u can
literarydiscussions: We have the beginnings of English as a Second Language, to help students in other countries..... AND we have the beginnings of discussions about religious and cultural differences.... and controversial authors such as Rushdie
rose_petal450 : yes i appreciat e u efforts
literarydiscussions: and, you see, in the other forum, I have compared Rusdie with the American humorist Mark Twain, in the sense that Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) would freely attack things which everyday society held to be sacred and unquestionable
rose_petal450 : u know sir, doubt is bless according to robert browning ,,,,every search starts with doubt
literarydiscussions: and such writers may be called ICONOCLASTIC, in that they question or smash those things which we have set up as idols which are beyond question or criticism
literarydiscussions: yes... and Santayan said that "doubt should be like our virginity, our innocence, and we must not casually surrender it to the first idea which passes by"
literarydiscussions: Santayana
rose_petal450 : inner conflict in minds ,,,,,,should be resolved
rose_petal450 : literary discussion is the sole forum which really help third world and second language speakers
literarydiscussions: well, certainly, many people may choose to start their own forum at myfreeforum.org and customize and design it in whatever way they prefer
literarydiscussions: so, I do not have a corner on the market...
literarydiscussions: and you see, the whole notion of free trade, and anti-trust, is designed to insure individual freedoms of minorities,.... so that all power and ability is not concentrated in the hands of a few, who may then..
literarydiscussions: who may then dictate who shall be free to write, and who shall be banished, and what is permissible to say, and what is forbidden...
rose_petal450 : yes i wil help u , to update u from asia, and south asia, as i am well stable family ,well
literarydiscussions: as Voltaire once said, "I do not agree with what you say but I shall defend to the death your right to say it."
rose_petal450 : yes u are rite
literarydiscussions: and, the american colonial spirit that it is better to die as a free man, with honor, than to live as a slave
literarydiscussions: of course, I am sure that the insurgent parties in Iraq feel exactly the same way....
rose_petal450 : remember one writer ,give me liberty or death,
rose_petal450 : u are rite,
literarydiscussions: and they see death as preferable to life in a regime imposed by a Western power which does not share their values
literarydiscussions: I certainly understand such feelings...
rose_petal450 : u are literary man and have sensitve heart and sensitive mind like writer and poets, as u are alos
literarydiscussions: for someone with bin Laden's belief, then a woman with make-up and no veil is satanic, demonic....
literarydiscussions: but... for a vegetarian hindu, a person who slaughters and eats animals is monstrous
rose_petal450 : ya beliefs are different
rose_petal450 : but i think one must jusifiy god ways to man
literarydiscussions: for an american, a democratic constitution and free elections seem most important.... but for other cultures, perhaps it is alien, and perhaps they see the clan or tribe, and submission to a warlord or ruler, as the better way
literarydiscussions: there are writers who speak of the Book of Job (and his sufferings) as a "Theodicy" or justification of the ways of God to man
rose_petal450 : u are rite but we have democracy but also have feudal class , which took grap the govt , ,,,feudal class govt
literarydiscussions: the age old question, "Why is it that the good and just man suffers, while the wicked and evil man prospers and grows strong and wealthy"
literarydiscussions: in the Psalms of the bible there is one verse which says, "I have seen the wicked man spreading in his power and influence as a Greenbay Tree (which is an enormous tree)
rose_petal450 : democary can be never flourished in hot regions ,,,,,,,,,,once Plato said
rose_petal450 : so we have so called demorcary in hot regions
literarydiscussions: you know.... i have used search engines on the Qu'ran, and I once discovered that there are only five verses in the Qur'an which mention the Psalms of the Jewish Bible...
literarydiscussions: but those five verses speak highly of the psalms, and one verse in Quran says that even the birds sing the psalms....
literarydiscussions: but... do you not see the irony in this!
literarydiscussions: The quran mentions the psalms five times, with great praise, and yet not one single verse of a psalm is quoted in the Quran, nor do muslims ever read the Psalms....
literarydiscussions: not that I mean to attack islam, or insult you... but you see, when one studies with a questioning mind, then one encounters such contradictions
rose_petal450 : ok sir,,,,,,,, now i am goig to bed,,,,,,as my brother is going to use computer,,,, thanks for sharing views and good suggestion,,,,,,, take care
rose_petal450 : ya birds
rose_petal450 : carry on
rose_petal450 : i am listening
rose_petal450 : sir
literarydiscussions: but.... you see, among the Greek christians, there is an oral tradition, to this very day, that the virgin mary was taken as a child into the temple in jerusalem, and raised until she was ready to give birth...
literarydiscussions: and the Qu'ran repeats this exact same account, of mary being raised in the temple...
literarydiscussions: few westerners know the Greek tradition,.... and fewer still know the tradition as it is repeated in Quran
literarydiscussions: well, you see, regarding Psalms... how could it possibly be that the Quran praises them in five places in five verses,.... and even says that the birds recite them.... and yet, there is no verse of the psalms included in the Quran, and no muslim reads pslams, because they have the notion that jews and christians corrupted everything...
rose_petal450 : jew according to quran,,wil be ther rich nation
rose_petal450 : and that is why they are
rose_petal450 : even jesus was jewish first ,,,,,,, what u say aobut that
BUZZ!!!
literarydiscussions: well, i am just sharing with you a rare insight which I had from using a search engine on the Qu'ran verses...
literarydiscussions: i read the quran from cover to cover in english when i was age 19,.... and looked up each word which i did not understand in the dictionary...
literarydiscussions: the translation was by Muhammed Marmaduke Pickthall,.... whose translation is still popularly sold today...
rose_petal450 : u are rite, But Quran can be interpreted but not translated ths is the reason
rose_petal450 : ya , i wil help u in this regard , sir, i wil introuduce new books if available in market
literarydiscussions: well, yes, that is always the argument of Muslims, and I understand,... to say that the book by pickthall is translated, with the title "THE MEANING of the Glorious Qur'an" for the simple reason that only the original arabic, properly recited is considered as the actual Quran
literarydiscussions: i know all this....
rose_petal450 : we have certain verses which is interpreted in many ways
literarydiscussions: but... you must also understand that such an argument is often used as an excuse to escape or avoid difficult questions....
rose_petal450 : so thousans books are written even on single chapter
literarydiscussions: the jews and christians carefully study each verse of old and new testament, and learn the different languages,..... and are open to debate, and look at the variant manuscripts....
rose_petal450 : no deear, may be the case with ignorant person,
rose_petal450 : but educated man wil prove,
literarydiscussions: but... you see, the very first muslim Caliph, after the death of the Prophet, had all the variant copies of the Quran gathered and burned...
rose_petal450 : ya ,
literarydiscussions: so, we KNOW from history that various conflicting versions of Quran existed... BUT we can never study and compare, because they were burned
literarydiscussions: and, getting back to Rushdie..... we KNOW that there is a tradition in the Hadith regarding the several satanic verses which were removed from Quran...
rose_petal450 : and remember also that first person who translated bible was made on fire, as first man translataed Quran was threaten, to kil,
literarydiscussions: Rushdie did not make this up, but was very clever to take an historical fact and build a novel upon it...
literarydiscussions: you see, i sense that the painful thing for you personally, will be as you grow and learn so many conflicting things, but then you will feel pained when they call into question and doubt those religious ideas in Islam which you cherish and hold as unquestionable...
rose_petal450 : dear ,Quran is complete but may be from hadith whicht is regard of common people of that time,,,,,,,it is calle d sunnit
literarydiscussions: yes, suni, shia,.... there are many many many sectarian divisions in islam throughout the centuries....
literarydiscussions: the traditionalists who forbid reason and logic, and the Mutakallimum who use philosophy and reason and logic
rose_petal450 : no verses is removed that is why rashdi was banned and threaten to killl, becaus he is not a religious scholar, and he has no rite to attack any religion,,,,,,,, as relligion for any follower o f that one is complet code
literarydiscussions: i am not trying to hurt your feelings... but obviously there is a problem for the Afghanistani or Pakistani who is devout, to enter the world scene, in a world in which not everyone considers the Quran as divinely revealed,... a world in which many people may see Prophet Muhammed as a flawed personality
literarydiscussions: ... who was possibly seeking his own advantage through his teachings
rose_petal450 : ya , dear i wil tell u one thing ,,, christainity and judaism and islam ,,,,,,,,,are the religion whic h one has to follow blindly because faith is efvery thing in religion
literarydiscussions: this is simply a fact
literarydiscussions: but... you see, to the secular scholar,.... all religionists are blind,... they must blindly follow certain things without questioning...
literarydiscussions: for it they question and doubt, then by definition, they are no longer christian, or muslim or jewish
literarydiscussions: even judaism has split into so many sectarian divisions, hasidic, lubavitcher, orthodox, conservative, reform.... and it is the reform movement which makes women to be rabbis, and denies the ressurection from the dead...
literarydiscussions: hence... all the other jewish sects have pronounced that the reform are no longer jewish... because they deny ressurection from the dead, which was one of Moses Maimonides 13 points of Jewish belief
literarydiscussions: each of us, based upon our personal convictions, experiences emotion pain when we are confronted with certain ideas...
literarydiscussions: one may easily see in the chat rooms the pain of those who are atheists and hate any notion of a god or a religion...
literarydiscussions: they snarl and foam at the mouth like some mad dog...
literarydiscussions: and a communist or socialist will snarl and foam at the mouth and the mention of capitalism and private property, and free market competition...
literarydiscussions: and the captalists will equally foam at the mouth at the mention of communisim...

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