literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org Literature, Poetry, Essays, Dialogues, Philosophy, Theology    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Join! (free) >   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Protagonist, Antagonist: Betrayed by Life in the End          literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> Thomas Hardy - Far From the Madding Crowd View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Sitaram Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079 Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:04 am    Post subject: Protagonist, Antagonist: Betrayed by Life in the End Shades: I talked to my friend, today... about the website. He was very interested and told me that he'd talk to you, tomorrow. Sitaram: thanks... Shades: ...it's nothing really... I just really respect what you're doing. Sitaram: much appreciated, thanks Shades: . Shades: In Far from the Madding Crowd, if Gabriel Oak is the protagonist, who is the antagonist? Sitaram: the existence of a protagonist does not necessarily imply the existence of an antagonist Sitaram: sometimes... it is just a word for the main character Shades: I know...but, that was one of the questions I came across. Sitaram: i see.... i must study the matter Shades: Describe the relationship between the protagonist and the antagonist. Shades: conflict..actually. Sitaram: well... clearly, i suppose... Ram and Ravanna were protagonist/antagonist Shades: Yes... Sitaram: Christ and Satan, another pair Shades: I think the only antagonist Gabriel had was first Bathesheba's vanity, and then Fate, itself. Sitaram: excellent point Sitaram: often, Fate, or simple Being/existence, is our antagonist Sitaram: I certainly think that Being/Existence is the antagonist in Sartre's works Shades: Okay, so the antagonist doesn't have to be a character.... Sitaram: correct, in my opinion... Sitaram: look at Hemingway's Old Man and the Sea Sitaram: the old man is the protagonist... Sitaram: and who is his antagonist? Shades: the sea... Shades: ? Sitaram: he does have one.... but it is not the sea, not the sharks... Sitaram: but.... luck/fate Sitaram: something working against him to frustrate him... Sitaram: which once worked in his favor... Shades: Hmm, yeh... Sitaram: and hence, it is a traitor Sitaram: it is about betrayal Shades: Okay.. Sitaram: we often feel betrayed by life, towards the end Back to top Sitaram Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079 Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:33 am    Post subject: Sitaram: good stuff Sitaram: good dialogue Shades: thank you. Sitaram: thank YOU Sitaram: you helped make it happen Shades: okay..hehe. Shades: I'm just wondering, does meditation really help a despondent person? I mean the formal, sitting meditation which mostly consists of breathing exercises or observation of the breath. Sitaram: sometimes... meditation can make people worse... Sitaram: if there is some form of depression... an organic cause, and imbalance... or schizophrenia,.... some form of mental illness.. then meditation can make them much worse Sitaram: you really have to be mentally strong for renunciate life Shades: I see. Shades: I guess that's what happened to me. Shades: It makes sense now. Sitaram: often.... people who suffer some form of mental illness, turn to religion, thinking that it will offer escape, relief Sitaram: but it sometimes makes things worse Shades: ..yeh. Shades: But, that's not why I am a spiritual aspirant to escape the trials and tribulations of life... it is because the highest and purest forms of happiness in my life have been experienced in a spiritual state of mind.... Sitaram: i did not mean to imply you... just stating facts in general Shades: Yeh..I know. I was just saying... Shades: The kali-yuga always makes sure the world is filled with an abundance of darkness.... Shades: Have you read the book The Mind and its Control by Swami Buddhananda? Sitaram: sorry... was doing laundry Sitaram: no, i have not read that Shades: Oh, okay...I guess you don't need to anyway. It's an amazing book a neophyte should read. It inspires me everytime I read it.... Sitaram: you see, for some, Kali Yuga is the antagonist Shades: hehe...yeh... Kali Yuga and everything which propells one away from his true-self(love, bliss..). Shades: When I was reading that article of Meher Baba yesterday...I came across one statement which you said you got in the epistle of St.John, and it was something similar to this : true religion is when you visit a widow and a motherless child and remain unspoiled by the world. Sitaram: that is from epistle of James Sitaram: an important verse Shades: Does that involve an overly-emotional compassionate reaction ? Sitaram: you see.. the New testament says.... "You are the salt of the earth"... but also says to "remain unspotted from the world" Sitaram: no.... if someone has fallen in a river.... or a well.... offer them your staff... but not your hand... Sitaram: which means.... you see.. if you cannot help them.. you lose only your staff... Sitaram: but... if you give them your hand, and fail.. then they destroy you Sitaram: an old monastic Christian saying Sitaram: you must maintain distance, equanimity Shades: Ah...okay... Sitaram: besides... and the emotional stuff in religion is pretty phoney Sitaram: like the christians hugging and kissing everyone Sitaram: they have no idea what genuine love is, or compassion , or forgiveness... Shades: I see that everytime I try to help someone I empathise with them to an extent where I am going through the exact pain... I get emotionally involved too easily and too soon.... so, I guess it's just be state of still being tainted by the world. Sitaram: for example... all the christians in usa want to erect monuments and plaques with Moses 10 commandments... THou SHALT,,, THou SHALT NOT.... but no one ever asks to make a monument to Jesus beatitudes, the sermon on the mount (Gandhis favorite).... "Blessed are the meek, the peacemakers..." Sitaram: Kurt Vonnegut pointed this out... a wise man is he Shades: Oh..yes..Christianity especially in India and many other third-world countries has become a kind of buisiness. The people seem to believe, "The more people you convert the greater your chances of going to heaven." (that also means bribing them to do it) Sitaram: rice christians Sitaram: people who convert from hunger and need Shades: Oh..interesting term, hehe. Sitaram: it is a term i learned from India Sitaram: missionaries hand out rice Shades: What about the ones in China? Shades: Like because of communism and everything, the people are offered more benefits if they convert to Christianity... Sitaram: wherever... south america... china... (mainland is communist, and they control the missionaries) Sitaram: or... Islam... offering cheap land to the Bhumi Putra, converts in Malaysia Sitaram: Bhumi Putra (native children) Sitaram: child of the land Shades: Hence I like Mahatma Gandhi's saying, "There was only one true Christian and he was a Jew." Sitaram: right Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> Thomas Hardy - Far From the Madding Crowd All times are GMT - 5 Hours Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum Showcase----------------You must CONTACT SITARAM directly to JOIN this message boardVoices of Africa UnitedHOW TO JOIN THIS FORUM. Click Join(free!) at upper right. 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