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The latest myff announcements The Death of the Universe          literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> Dialogues View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Sitaram Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079 Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:55 am    Post subject: The Death of the Universe erhankayalik : hi literarydiscussions: hello there erhankayalik : i just arrived to the dormatry literarydiscussions: welcome back home erhankayalik : thanks erhankayalik : i have to learn all of misteries of spss literarydiscussions: a statistics program literarydiscussions: ? erhankayalik : yes literarydiscussions: i have heard of it... but know nothing about it erhankayalik : entering variables you get outputs by doing necessary proccesses erhankayalik : crostabs erhankayalik : frequincies literarydiscussions: the classic box like nature of every function.... something goes in, something else comes out erhankayalik : rigt,so rigt erhankayalik : dear i have created a circule,a chain of thougths ,a kind of phylosophie but i dont want to tell about it in detail to people ,and of questions in this thought is(not a very serious qoustion in whole chain)about relations between peopleo you think relations are some kind of trade that is developed in folks to live to gether(even the question is so traditional to investigate public relations and individual it ia a good question) erhankayalik : there is "d" inplace of smiling face literarydiscussions: how interesting literarydiscussions: i must think about this literarydiscussions: for a moment literarydiscussions: Are the relations (interactions) between people a form of TRADE (quid pro quo) which makes possible an atmosphere of peace or harmony in which society may live literarydiscussions: there I have tried to put it into my own words... literarydiscussions: notice that QUID PRO QUO means (something performed or given or provided with the explicit hope or understanding that something else will be received or done in return) erhankayalik : yes literarydiscussions: this touches upon works such as Rousseau (Social Contract), Hobbes Leviathan, Locke, in a political sense literarydiscussions: and I am reminded of Psychologist, Alfred Adler, the psychologist, and his book "What Life Could Mean for You"... literarydiscussions: in an interpersonal sense... literarydiscussions: and, in literature, I am reminded of Silas Marner by George Eliot (Mary Evans) literarydiscussions: we might add to all this Platos Republic, and Aristotles Politics erhankayalik : you say there are lots of from every phylosophie in this thought ha literarydiscussions: Life is similar to a Mathematical function.... you put something in, you expect something to come out erhankayalik : right literarydiscussions: in friendships, relationships, we put something in, and expect something to "come out of it" erhankayalik : effect and reflect erhankayalik : in physis erhankayalik : physics literarydiscussions: you might take a look at Homer's Iliad, the battlefield dialogue between Glaukos and Diomedes, in which gifts are exchanged erhankayalik : newton literarydiscussions: yes the 3rd law literarydiscussions: action, equal and opposite reaction erhankayalik : i read it literarydiscussions: and yet, consider the laws of Thermodynamics,... which predict a gradual, inevitable HEAT DEATH,... literarydiscussions: namely, that the entire universe, as a system, must wind down like a clock, until all energy is equally distributed, and luke warm literarydiscussions: at which point... nothing more can happen... no more events literarydiscussions: think of "exchange"..... and differences of potential energy... literarydiscussions: Life itself feeds on "negative entropy" erhankayalik : right and one more thing conflicts occurs cos of the unsatisfaction of saller and buyer erhankayalik : it is so natural literarydiscussions: negative entropy means some very high degree of organization, like a crystal, with much energy bound up, potential energy, waiting to be released,.... then a living thing EATS IT or releases that energy in some way... literarydiscussions: entropy, on the other hand (as opposed to NEGATIVE entropy) is a high measure of disorder, disorganization, randomness... erhankayalik : organisation collect things to postpone its death time(negative entropy) literarydiscussions: the laws of thermodynamics predict that the entire universe shall eventually become luke warm,.... incapable of supporting more reactions, interactions, exchanges... erhankayalik : total inputs =total outpus ha literarydiscussions: Issac Asimov wrote a short story, science fiction, entitled "The Final Question" (or was it the final problem, final solution), about computers set to solve the problem of HEAT DEATH erhankayalik : hiiim erhankayalik : i havent read it erhankayalik : but i think iwill literarydiscussions: in asimov's story.... generation after generation of people , increase their technology, improve their computers.... literarydiscussions: and each generation places the same question to the new computers... to solve the problem of HEAT DEATH literarydiscussions: but.... never is their any solution... literarydiscussions: finally, at the end of time, the end of history,... humans have become god like in their powers and knowledge,... and their computers have become god like literarydiscussions: but....still no answer to the heat death problem... literarydiscussions: and finally the universe and all life DOES end in heat death.... BUT... literarydiscussions: those computers are now so advanced, that they exist in some other dimension, unaffected... literarydiscussions: so.. they continue to work on the final problem.. literarydiscussions: and at the end of the story, they find the SOLUTION, the answer... and the story ends with the words LET THERE BE LIGHT literarydiscussions: WHICH, of course is the first words of the Bible, Genesis, where God creates everything... literarydiscussions: so, Asimov is being very clever literarydiscussions: in his story erhankayalik : i m now looking about asimov in internet erhankayalik : i think there are some his books in scool's library literarydiscussions: there is a different story.... called "THe Nine Billion Names of God" erhankayalik : i think i have heard of it literarydiscussions: some Tibetan monks build a computer to discover the nine billion names of God.... in the belief that the universe will end once they are all known literarydiscussions: well... at the end of the story... the computer finishes its task... and someone looks at the night sky, and sees the stars going out, one by one erhankayalik : in islam god have 99 names beware of 9s in lots of cultures literarydiscussions: yes i am familiar with Islam, and the 99 names... and i think there is a notion of a 100th, unknown... literarydiscussions: now Yann Martel, in "LIfe of Pi" writes the book in EXACTLY 100 chapters.... which has something to do with this names of god notion erhankayalik : is it a new popular book kind cos i dont like popular cultere books literarydiscussions: but, it is a brilliant novel... which shall become important in future generations erhankayalik : hiimmm so i will lok it toobut iwant tosay that i dont have any problem but this products of capital lokks so made up erhankayalik : problem with capital literarydiscussions: think of the problems regarding SPECULATION, where the value of a stock increases beyond the actual value of the company,... and then there is a CRASH, and an economic depression erhankayalik : right literarydiscussions: hmmm.... let us think about the "energy" of the universe, with regard to thermodynamics, and entropy.... literarydiscussions: and let is try to find an ANALOGY, an analog, in the ENERGY, involved in interpersonal relationships, on a one to one level, in a small community, on a national level, and on a global level literarydiscussions: is one SYSTEM in any way a mirror of the other, obeying similar laws erhankayalik : you say think about an energy that got a higher level ond is a mirror of everything? literarydiscussions: In Shakespeares "Midsummer nights Dream", Miranda (whose name means Wonder/Miracle) says "Oh, brave new world that has such people in it." but the reply she receives is "It is new to YOU" erhankayalik : oooowww yhats good literarydiscussions: Aristotle said, in the beginning of the Metaphysics...."Philosophy begins in WONDER" (Miranda) literarydiscussions: so.... part of the energy of human activity is a psychological WONDER, curiosity.... so each new generation of children,.... are like miranda,... everything is NEW to them... literarydiscussions: Vladimir Nabokov, in "Pale Fire", wrote: "Curiosity is the highest form of insubordination." literarydiscussions: so, curiosity, wonder.... is a fuel of sorts.... for inventions, revolutions, conquests, exploration... literarydiscussions: but, the unrest of wonder, curiosity, leads to questioning and instability... literarydiscussions: political instability... literarydiscussions: a tyrranical, autocratic government seeks to extinguish wonder, questioning, curiosity.... since it is a source of disobedience, insubordination literarydiscussions: so.... we see our world history as a great, dynamic, reaction... from the middle ages, through the renaissance,... with the rise of democratic republics,... and today, as you see the world now... with different systems and ideologies,.... communist, socialcist, theocracy, democracy... dictatorship... literarydiscussions: we may view the history of the world as a long chemical reaction.... literarydiscussions: in which there are the "exchanges" which you mention.... (something in exchange for something else... expectations)... literarydiscussions: expectations fulfilled,... expectations disappointed literarydiscussions: from the time of the Russian revolution,.... communism was a 70 year experiment, spanning 3 generations,... and yet it was an economic failure... literarydiscussions: and... religion, that "opiate of the people", could not be cured... literarydiscussions: when the soviet union dissolved, and things were free, people came out clamoring for all kinds of religion... jews wanted to be jewish... there were even those who came to america to be Hare Krishna hindu.... and temples had to set up lessons in Russian language literarydiscussions: there are some things which change,.... and there are other things which remain forever the same erhankayalik : every thing you say i understand exept some words and im agree wih you erhankayalik : cos i think so erhankayalik : i think literarydiscussions: i am age 56...i have devoted many years to such readings and thoughts.... and it is like climbing a vast mountain..... literarydiscussions: the higher you get,... the more the view changes... the more you feel you can see... literarydiscussions: but.... you cannot easily share what you see and understand with others.... literarydiscussions: only if they also make the same journey, climb the same mountain, spend many years... literarydiscussions: only then can they arrive at the place where you are, and see the same view... 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