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SFG75 · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:23 pm Post subject: Are Mormons christians?

I ask this because there are many people of different protestant sects who would maintain that Mormons are not christians. On the other hand, Mormons do acknowledge a monotheistic god, as well as his son Jesus Christ. They accept the Holy Ghost and thus, are good trinitarians. While they do believe that they have a living "prophet" on the earth today, that is no different than Catholics believing that the Pope is divinely inspired. However, they do have some beliefs that are definitely not christian. Things such as an extra text(that being, the Book of Mormon) and a triune heaven comprised of the celestial, terrestial, and telestial domains. The celestial is for members who observe all Mormon rites and who perform their church "callings" as asked to do. The middle heaven is for somewhat active members, but who for some reason, weren't as dedicated as their celestial peers. Likewise, the telestial initiates are people who lived good lives, but who were inactive church members or those who gave up the faith but still retained an honest disposition in all things. Even with these differences, I fail to see how this group is not "christian" any more than Jehovah's Witnesses and Unitarians are christians. Certainly some of their beliefs are *peculiar* as the Mormon ones, but I don't see a lot of churches adamantly stating that Unitarians are not christians.

Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

I have asked many mormons, and they say emphatically that they are Christians.

I have spent time both with the Utah Mormons, and the Reformed LDS of Missouri

SFG75

Gem · Moderator Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 24 Location: London

Great thread.

According to the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, they believe that salvation
is possible only thorugh the life, death, resurrection, doctrines and
ordinances of Jesus Christ and in no other way. Therefore this would
mean that they are Christians.

However I read an article some time ago which maintained that Mormons
used to refute being Christians, instead preferring to call themselves
'saints' as in the Church of Latter Day Saints. The article further
maintained that they only recently made a u-turn and wanted to be
called Christians as a way of getting rid of the label of 'cult'. What are
your thoughts on this?

I'll see if i can dig up the article, though If I recall correctly it was by a
clergy member strictly against Mormons being called Christians, hence
most likely to be biased.

Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

It is such a relief to me to be able to speak freely about anything without fear of censorship.

I must retire to bed soon, but I will tell you (a little tonight and more
tomorrow) about a tiny little one room schoolhouse in connecticut (which was
their first school house in the early 1900's. It was right near where I grew
up, and I would always pass by it, and I knew it was some kind of church, but
never knew what kind. Well, it was the REORGANIZED latter day saints,
which are different from the Utah church, and much smaller.... but until 20
years ago, their leaders were all descendents of the original Smith who
founded the mormon religion.

SFG75 · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject:

Bigelow · Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:44 pm Post subject: Mormons

A book called "No man knows my History" by Fawn Brodie can answer many questions about the Mormons.
Bigelow

abecedarian · Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Posts: 11 Location: Kansas

At the risk of offending any Mormons who happen upon this post, I have to
say that I disagree about their Christian statis. I know they use the Bible "in
as far as it is interpreted correctly", but I believe the god they worship is
very different from the God of the Bible. They freely use ordinary Christian
terms, but have a completely different meaning attached to those terms.
They use the name Jeus Christ as part of their identity, but their Jesus is not
the same one I worhship. Their Jesus is born of a physical union between
God and Mary, and is a brother to Lucifer(know known as Satan). They also
believe that Lucifer did a good thing when he tempted Eve. They also believe
that faithful humans can achieve godhood in the next life, just like the god of
this world did...This is also contrary to the Bible and early church teachings.

Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

My dad took me to the worlds fair in NYC in 1963 or so. We entered the
Mormon pavilion, and felt rather upset that they seemed to force us to
enter a theatre and watch a movie, even though we asked to leave. I
remember vaguely the movie, with a scene where we are in heaven and
meet our ancestors, a scene filled with heavily winged angels.

I spent some time reading up on their beliefs, which I must say differ
radically from other Bible-based denominations.

Yet, one might speak for hours about how Calvinists differ from Southern
Baptists on the T.U.L.I.P five point issue of predestination.

I always forget this acronym (which is not what one is meant to do with
acronyms)

T = Total depravity of humans lacking divine grace

U = (gosh darn I forgot, yeah I know I can google and I will in a minute)
(ok here it is

http://www.thecaveonline.com/APEH/calvinTULIP.html

unconditional election. God chooses to save people unconditionally; that
is, they are not chosen on the basis of their own merit.)

L = LIMITED atonement: The atonement of Christ's Crucifixion is limited
to those who are predestined from before the foundation of the world to
be saved, an ineluctible irrisitable salvation. And DOUBLE predestination
means that, conversely, the damned are predestined from before the
foundation of the world to be damned, will-he-nil-he. which lead us to

I = IRRESISTABLE nature of salvation. Everything is in Gods hands, which
is necessary to preserve the notion of the TOTAL SOVEREIGNTY of God.
For if human freewill consent and cooperation entered into the process,
then God's role would be diminished.

and finally

P= Perserverance of the saints, though Lord knows why on earth they
should not disappear given that their salvation is foreordained and
ineluctible.

And I might go on and on about the radical differences between the
various Protestant denominations with one another, and between them
and all the pre 16th century pre Reformation confessions, and between
the Roman Catholics and all confessions prior to the 1054 schism between
Rome and Constinople.

One verse which stands out for me is II Peter Ch. 3, a very short epistle,
but Peter says something like "Paul has said some things which are
difficult to understand and the weak in mind distort them to their own
destruction, as the do also with other verses in the Bible." I doubt that
many ministers have given a sermon on that verse, because it opens up a
whole can of worms. Another verse says basically that each and every
verse in the Bible is salvific and suitable for instruction. Yet on the last
page of the Book of Job, we hear God saying to Job "And tell your friends
that I am angry with them since they spoke of me incorrectly." Yet,
what those 3 friends of Job said are also verses in the Bible. So we
have God himself saying that there is error in the Bible.

Elsewhere in the Bible, we see Paul speak of a sort of divine
abandonment, where those who are hopeless backsliders of recidivism
are abandoned by God, increasing their condemnation.

We see in Acts that Simon, who wanted to purchase ordination
(the sin of simony) is told that it is not clear whether he will be able to
successfully repent of such a sin and be forgiven, given the gravity
of the offense.

There are so many sticky wickets in scripture. One may approach them
as something of endless fascination, like an encyclopedia of chess
matches, or one may take them as a justification for skepticism
and disbelief.

Jonathan Swift, in Gulliver's Travels, makes fun of these schismatic
issues, with the Bigendians, at war with the LIttleendians, over which
end a hard boiled egg should be opened. Both sectarian groups
point to a verse in their scriptures which says "Open thy egg
where thou wilt."

Swift also said, "There is just enough religion in the world to make
everyone hate each other, but not enough religion to make
everyone love one another."

Jesus' haunting prayer in the garden of Gesthemene, "Father, all
those whom Thou has given to me, may they be ONE , even as
You and I are one." What has happend to that prayer in the past
2000 years? Is that a prayer to be answered by God, or is that
a prayer to be answered by mankind?

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