literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org

Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

Sitaram:
Can you reach myspace.com site in China? or is it blocked

Chinese_Grad_Student:
Let me try. Yes, I see it. It comes up for me.

Sitaram:
Aha, thanks for the test. glad it comes up

Chinese_Grad_Student:
Most of the websites can be seen here. Seldom are they blocked. Of
course, there are some which are blocked

Sitaram:
I think I found one that critizes mao tse dung, and it was blocked... which
is understandable

Chinese_Grad_Student:
Tell me, do you think there is a universal cure to the social disease?

Sitaram:
What do you mean about "the social disease" ... AIDS? You mean sexually
transmitted diseases

Chinese_Grad_Student:
I mean what injures the happiness of the people, mainly ideologies,
policies, etc.

Sitaram:
In English,... the phrase "social disease" suggests... precisely... some bad
ideology. OK, I understand

Sitaram:
Here is what I wrote regarding that question:
http://literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org/ftopic153.php

entitled

"Survival advantages of mortality and discord"

Chinese_Grad_Student:
I mean the resolving of social problems are very difficult.

Sitaram:
I suggest that it is part of our survival advantage to be incapable of
universal agreement on anything, since it guarantees our diversity... and
diversity means survival... some in deserts, some in rain forests, some in
polar regions. So... you see, the great error of soviet and Chinese
communist movements, is to think that ALL PEOPLE can be molded to the
same opinion. But, unity, unanimity, unilateral concord and agreement is
not in our nature.

i.e. there are genetic survival reasons why we are not suited for such
harmony and agreement

Chinese_Grad_Student:
quite different from Chinese culture

Sitaram:
Oh no.... those Chinese who believe that they have unity and differ
essently from human nature elsewhere are simply deceiving themselves

Chinese_Grad_Student:

I mean the real most ancient ones

Sitaram:
I see much discord and diversety among the Chinese that I know, and
amoung the former soviets... and in islamic cultures

Chinese_Grad_Student:

Theory is theory; practice is practice

Sitaram:
The picture painted of ancient times is also a false picture...

Chinese_Grad_Student:
The Chinese culture survives by virtue of harmony not discord

Chinese_Grad_Student:

The different generations of Chinese leaders say different things, but they
do the same, with few exceptions

Sitaram:
But... you are one of those who has been very successfully brainwashed,
so you cannot see the truth of what I say (no disrespect intended)

Chinese_Grad_Student:
Those close to the principles are closer to success

Chinese_Grad_Student:
Brainwashed by whom?

Sitaram:
Like , in the 1950s, the Chinese government made up some fictitious
"peasant saint", with a name and posters, who was ONLY FOR THE
PARTY,... and thought only of being a good citizen. Every time I talk to
you... the doctrine comes out of your every pore of your body (like
sweat)

Chinese_Grad_Student:

I do not believe that at all.

Chinese_Grad_Student:

What I believe is the Chinese culture, not doctrines said by any
governmental leaders

Sitaram:
That night, a year ago, when you were up so late.. and your wife was
calling you to come to bed.... and I made that joke... telling you to say
"yes, dear, you must want to make love, I shall be right there.” And you
were so scandalized and basically said "Oh NO, I never have such
thoughts, I only think to be a good citizen and help my fellow man and my
country.”

Chinese_Grad_Student:
She loves me and she is afraid that too much time looking at the monitor
hurts my eyesight

Sitaram:
I know many Chinese males, in mainland... and they are not some perfect
party saint, with a heart as pure as the driven snow. You talk is if no
Chinese ever has a base or wicked thought.

but... that is the idea behind communism

Chinese_Grad_Student:
I am interested in not only one country, I am concerned with the world,.

Sitaram:

I know, but, I suspect that you are fooling yourself regarding your own
human nature, and also regarding the nature of your fellow man. No
offense.... I am just being honest

Chinese_Grad_Student:
Communism is mistakenly taken as something Chinese, but it is in heart
western

Chinese_Grad_Student:
I am honest too. And I usually don't feel angry at anything

Sitaram:
aha... but there you go... you believe that you are incapable of anger...

Chinese_Grad_Student:
I believe when one is angry, he is in the lowest part of intelligence

Sitaram:
This is naive .... you are incapable of some base sexual thought or
feeling... this too is naive

Chinese_Grad_Student:
I hope I am as pure as that

Sitaram:
People who are brainwashed see the world through the colored glasses of
their ideology... and they see themselves with some halo around their
head

Chinese_Grad_Student:
But that is only an ideal now

Sitaram:
True human nature is neither all good, nor all evil, but a broad spectrum
of potentialities for both good and evil, driven by freewill choice, and then
conditioned by habit. I do not try to provoke you, or insult you... but this
is honestly how I see things

Chinese_Grad_Student:
Probably most of the people think so. but I don't

Sitaram:
I saw things this way before, when we chatted a year or so ago... but I
hesitate to say things which will anger. But... then, if I am dishonest with
you, then that is not beneficial for you either. Perhaps you see me as
entirely mistaken, and that is your privilege...

but perhaps, in years to come, you may remember my words, and
change your mind about what I say...

Chinese_Grad_Student:

What I think now is the same with one year ago. And I don't I will change
in the future,

these words were said before

Sitaram:
This answer of yours also is very naive, a form of self deception and
denial

Chinese_Grad_Student:
That is a cultural difference

Sitaram:
We all have great potential to change with age... to change for the better,
or to change for the worse

Chinese_Grad_Student:
What changes is my ability and what I can do, not what I want to do
neither what I believe

Sitaram:
The mind is a wonderful servant, but a cruel master

Chinese_Grad_Student:

Most of the people are like being described by you,but I have far passed
the time of vibrating

Sitaram:
You are not even age 40... correct?

Chinese_Grad_Student:
It has beome history

Sitaram:
are you even over 30

Chinese_Grad_Student:
Yes, I am far younger than you, but one's brain can not be measured by
time

Sitaram:
So.. what is your age, I am 57

Chinese_Grad_Student:
32

Sitaram:
ok... that is young

Chinese_Grad_Student:
and much younger than ten years ago. and ten years ago, my heart is
over 80 years old

Sitaram:
I suspect you are idealistic, and unrealistic... and you have a false sense
of entitlement and superiority

Chinese_Grad_Student:
now I am just 60 in my mental age.

no, just because I understands people

Sitaram:
But... this is what your culture and government encourages... I have seen
many documentaries about mainland China over the past 20 years

Chinese_Grad_Student:
I not understand people but myself.

but there is less than 10 percent of people really believe in that

the governmental officials announces many things that then don't believe
themselves and most of them know that the common people don't believe
in what they are saying either

Sitaram:
if Chinese communism could really be successful in its goals to transform
human nature, then internet censorship would be unnecessary, since no
Chinese citizen would choose to read what is subversive or inappropriate.
And there would not be such unrest with such movements as Phalun
gong, or disputes with the Pope of Rome over state approved bishops

Chinese_Grad_Student:
There is an old Chinese saying that "steal the bell by means of covering
your own ears"

Sitaram:
see if you can access this link which is communist posters from the
revolution
http://www.lib.monash.edu/exhibitions/communism/xcommunismcat.html

Chinese_Grad_Student:
you understands only the western culture, so as being said by Eliot, you
believe that people cannot look at the two sides of a mirror at the same
time

Sitaram:
See if that link is censored, blocked... I am curious

Chinese_Grad_Student:
but I am not curious, I don't think that matters greatly

Sitaram:
aha, you are afraid to try it... so, you will not... it is a harmless link... an
exhibit at a British museum of old posters

Chinese_Grad_Student:
I am waiting for the webpages to come up

Sitaram:
good, if you clicked it... thanks

Chinese_Grad_Student:
I see it
Sitaram:
can you see it...

Chinese_Grad_Student:
but you don't understand that most of the people here have no interest in
communism

Chinese_Grad_Student:
the party members hate meetings

Sitaram:
are you a party member?

Chinese_Grad_Student:
probably

Chinese_Grad_Student:
some officials don't like the meetings either

but they have nothing to do,

many orders from above force them to hold new meetings

Sitaram:
what do you mean... probably.. either YOU ARE a party member, or you
ARE NOT...

Chinese_Grad_Student:
and the members just

I mean YES, I am a party member

Sitaram:
ok....

Chinese_Grad_Student:
Attend the meetings and think about other things during them

Sitaram:
so... do party members enjoy greater privileges in education over
non-party members?

Chinese_Grad_Student:
no

Sitaram:
so, there are students who do better than you, receive honors, and they
are not party members?

Chinese_Grad_Student:
yes many

Sitaram:
interesting..
And, why do they not become party members
did you ever ask them
just curious

Chinese_Grad_Student:
but some join the party for the benefit of being easier to find a job

Sitaram:
so, there IS some definite benefit to party membership
some advantage

Chinese_Grad_Student:
in higher educations possibly (not probably) the party members sounds finer
a little advantage, especially one who wants to be an official

Sitaram:
a different topic..... I read someone in USA, who states that "all intellectuals lean somewhat to the left"

Chinese_Grad_Student:
usually tries hard to be a member

history tells us that any policy can only exist for a period of time,

Sitaram:
so, therefore, by your own words, Chinese communism will one day pass
away

since nothing lasts forever

as will usa democracy, one day pass away

Chinese_Grad_Student:
that is one conclusion can be deduced

Sitaram:
either you believe it, or you do not

Chinese_Grad_Student:
and I must make it clear, by the way, that democracy is better for the
west, not for the east,

Chinese_Grad_Student:
and the doctrines of Confucius is better for the east not for the west

and just like medicine, one kind of medicine cures one disease

Sitaram:
you are avoiding my question

Chinese_Grad_Student:
no, I am not
I agree with your deductions

Chinese_Grad_Student:
deductions

Sitaram:
do you believe that all things pass away, that nothing lasts for ever, and
therefore, the Chinese communist govt will one day pass away

Sitaram:
a simple answer...

Chinese_Grad_Student:
that is included in my premise

Chinese_Grad_Student:
a simpler answer is "yes"

Sitaram:
i, for my part, believe that one day, American government will one day
pass away, crumble, be defeated , replaced by something else

even Rome, which lasted 1000 years, fell

and, the sun now sets on the British empire

Chinese_Grad_Student:
the fusion of the east and the west is the prediction

and there will be a great empire, only one, of the human race, on this
globe

but that is not a good promising prospect

Sitaram:
is it not true that China is evolving more private ownership, private
industry, resembling capitalism, compared to how it was in the 60s or
50s?

what is your impression regarding that issue

Chinese_Grad_Student:
yes

Sitaram:
since, I do not study such things, and judge only by what I 'over hear"

Chinese_Grad_Student:
and when the economical situation changes,

Sitaram:
Do you feel there is a growing problem because of the one child policy,
that there are too many males born, and not enough females?

Chinese_Grad_Student:
When the world wide companies rule this world

that is a small problem

compared with what I am thinking now

Sitaram:
I read that China would be in very deep trouble if they had not instituted
the one child policy... trouble with overpopulation

Chinese_Grad_Student:
comparing with

Sitaram:
but.. on the other hand... people prefer to have a male child, if they are
limited to only one

Chinese_Grad_Student:
overpopulation will never be a real prlbem for human race

Sitaram:
this is what I read/hear

Chinese_Grad_Student:
and the ideologies are changing very fast

Sitaram:
well, if we keep killing each other, you are correct

we will not have a problem with overpopulation

Chinese_Grad_Student:
the population is crowded in big cities(and that is the intendency)

there would not necessarily be a one-child policy

overpopulation was first seen as a problem by Malthus?

or similar name?

Sitaram:
it took until 1860 for wold population to reach 1 billion

Chinese_Grad_Student:
who was concerned about the population of Great Britain, the west
Europe,

Sitaram:
but by 1930, it had doubled to 2 billion

and by the 1970s it had TRIPLED to 3 billion
so, it grows at an exponential rate

Chinese_Grad_Student:
but that never happen to the countries he feared the most

Sitaram:
so.. by 2020, it is estimated to be 20 billion..

but earth's ecosystem can only support 1 billion indefinitely

Chinese_Grad_Student:
the problem is much easier to solve,

by scientific means
or anything like that
unpopulated areas can be used as a place to live in deserts

Sitaram:
I disagree with your notion... I think we face great problems
but... good talking with you
sorry if I offend or hurt your feelings with my honesty
but... you do not only want to hear flattery,

Chinese_Grad_Student:
I am concerned with the most difficult one,
and all these difficulties I understand, and never ignored
and then what I can do, I do, and will do

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