literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org

Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

Myspace is unusable to me right now for posting blogs
This rarely happens, but it does happen
Well, I will just write off line, and post when it is back working
I enjoy writing about such questions

I am exploring the possibilities of it

Possibilities of what?

Of how Jesus felt growing up
What did he experience or know about himself

There is one verse which says "he grew and waxed strong"

I'm aware of it
I come from a strongly religious background
and have a good selection of commentaries

Abraham Heschel wrote "we must learn to understand what we see, and not merely see only that which we understand"

I like that

Rabbi Abraham Heschel wrote two volumes on "The Prophets"
on the Old Testament
There he also writes "few are guilty but all are responsible"
which reminds me of that book "Hitler's willing assassins"

I would debate that one

Oh... that one is so intuitively obvious I mean, look at Hitlers Germany
the few guilty went to their Nuremberg trials...
but all of society was responsible
like that saying "evil men triumph when good men stand by and do nothing"
which fits in with Gandhi "we must ourselves become that very change we desire to see in the world
which is somewhat like he said, just differently
depends on your definition of "guilty" vs responsible

I agree with that but I also believe in all have sinned
so few are not guilty we all are

I once asked a roman catholic scholar how he would answer a protestant who asked h im "are you saved"....
he replied, "I would answer that i am redeemed"
and then gave an interesting explanation on the difference between salvation and redemption

I believe that we are all depraved due to the fall of man

that was Calvin’s view
and also the view of others

I believe some of Calvins teaching
but not the TULIP

Pelagius argued with Augustine that, if it were possible for one man, Adam, to cast all in sin, even those unaware of Adam, then it should be possible for one man, Jesus, to redeem all, even those ignorant of him
which was a very powerful argument...

I would agree with that except they cannot be ignorant of him to receive the salvation

but, Pelagius lost, the west rallied behind Augustine, and Augustine in many ways laid the foundation for the reformation

well, then, how could amazon indians in the rain forests be ignorant of Adam, and yet be plunged in such sin

even nature calls his glory aloud that is for God alone to answer

You are finding what you seek, rather than simply seeking and finding
it all goes bact to socrates in platos dialogues....

I have read them well

and the paradox that,.... if you presume to know, then, you do not seek....

but faith is so mysterious and slippery

That is why Socrates spent so much time refuting people, to bring them to a point of aporia (no way out) where they admit they do not know...
which is why Socrates had the nickname "narke" (stingray)
which we get our word narcotic from

wasn't aware of that

since Socrates would numb people to motionlessness with refutation....
but, place them in a receptive state,.... to begin to learn...

but, his other nickname was gadfly... because he would sting up the lethargic horse of the state

Religion & Ethics just came on pbs

a rabbi reflects on psalm 23

(in the previews)

some liberal born again woman.... is interviewed,... who has biting humor and uses foul language at times...
cant catch her name yet
Ann Lamont

on NY times best seller

kin to Anton?

not sure

just parroting what i hear

he's a satanist

no, that's lavey

she is talking now... in the interview
she had atheist parents.... drink and drugs in adolescence
rock bottom at age 30
then, reform
at a presbyterian church

I like the presbyterians
i have always enjoyed the unitarian sermons i come across

do you believe in the inerrancy of scripture?

not really
there is one verse in the bible which implies that there is falsehood in certain biblical verses

which one is that?

the last chapter of job... god tells job to tell his 3 friends that "I am angry with them because they spoke of me incorrectly"
but, there words are biblical verses

perhaps it was the context that they spoke incorrectly about
ppl tend to twist verses to meet their beliefs sometimes

well, but, you see your reluctance to entertain anything which contradicts your professed beliefs

look at Peter II ch 3.
where he says that Paul said some obscure things, which the weakminded twist to their own distruction
as they do many biblical verses
but that could be a perfect description of martin luther
of the reformation

but you have to admit that most of the core beliefs are not refuted by most
who have adequate knowledge

i find martin luther sadly misguided

based upon what?

so many things...
but mainly,... he places so much stress on one verse of old testament "just shall live by faith"
but, he totally ignores the many warnings that it is better never to vow at all than to vow and not pay
and he voluntarily took vows of celibacy...
but then married a nun,.... and declared celibacy to be sinful
and yet christ and paul speak of a proper role for celibacy

if you dont burn in your heart, yes
but if you do, then marry

you can only see anything and everything from a protestant point of view...

me?

yes, you.... it is written all over you
but, it is the problem of many people

how would you define faith?

i mean, whether they are jewish, muslim, calvinist, whatever
if you expect that faith can be a one sentence answer, in a chat box, then.... i dont think
you could understand what faith is

lol

and i dont mean some lame quote from paul
ok
like parrots churning out vers numbers

different question

do you believe in a 'leap of faith'

there is a joke about a man who is sent to prison
and he hears the prisoners calling out numbers..... 26, ha ha ha (laughter)...... 5 (he he haw) more laughter

so, he says,... What is this
a prisoner explains that they have only so many jokes, so they reduced them to numbers
so... he calls out 29.... BUT silence,... no laughter
the prisoner says, "some people cant tell a joke"
but... it is like these people who discourse as a series of verse numbers

do you believe in a 'leap of faith'

ohhh... the "apotreptic moment"....
someone lectured on that at my college in 1960s
apotrepsis is "turning around"....
180 degrees.... suddenly...
like a leap
but.... wittgenstein at the very end of the Tractatus... says that what he has given you is a ladder... that once you ascend it, you must kick it away as useless
which is another kind of leap

not quite what I meant

sure, saul becomes paul
that is a leap

not that either

ok.... what do you mean by it

let me see if I can put it into words

take your time... or even, post an essay on it

that is what i do all the time

You follow a path of knowledge which leads you to a conclusion, but there is no bridge to get there. All the points have led you there so you leap there in a nutshell

hmmm... let me think.... oh wait... i know.... there is a special word....
illation
meaning?
coined by an episcopal priest, become catholic
very famous
will remember name in minute
illation is well illlustrated in Brideshead Revisited
it means years and years of subtle experiences, which bring one ultimately to some religious conversion...
cardinal newman
I think perhaps I should need to write the essay as you proposed for you to understand me better
i had to google for what i wrote a few years ago

http://literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org/sutra763.php

Illation and brideshead revisited...
but... also... regarding your comment...

that solution to the 300 yr math problem
fermats last theorem
recently, that man solved it, spent about 20 years...
300 page proof.... drawing from every branch of math and every period of history

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