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Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

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Jack: so u were sayin?
Sitaram: ok... in a nutshell
Sitaram: i gave you a link to an essay on Malraux and old age, but that contains links to
my other essays
Sitaram: Suicide as Genocide turned inside out
Sitaram: and Morality vs Strategic Military Objectives
Sitaram: http://literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org/sutra1374.php
Sitaram: then i said
Jack: i don;t get wot u mean by suicide as genocide
Sitaram: that the free world cannot win against terrorism with conventional moral
warfare
Sitaram: just listen, and go to links later
Sitaram: here is my argument...
Sitaram: suppose you could look in a crystal ball and see the following two senarios
Sitaram: scenario 1, you commit the sin of genocide, killing one sixth of the worlds
population.... but the crystal ball shows you that there will be 1000 years of peace,
freedom, secular democracy
Sitaram: but the other scenario...
********** at 2:01 PM Matt joined the room
Sitaram: on moral grounds, you abstain from genocide with WMD, feeling that
conventional warfare is more moral
Sitaram: and for 100 years, you fight terrorism, until your resources are depleated
Jack: but thats just silly
********** at 2:02 PM Matt left the room
Sitaram: and in your crystal ball, you see the entire world enslaved under theocratic
rule
Sitaram: in 1900, if you described the nazis, people would say THAT IS SILLY
Jack: so u want the us to wipe out the worlds muslim population?
Sitaram: it has nothing whatsoever to do with my personal desires... i am an old man
who shall be dead soon
Sitaram: i really dont care much what the world actually does.
Jack: but that would simply create new terroists
Sitaram: but, i consider the simple arithematic and commonsense of what shall
happen
Jack: i would become a terroist if the us was to do that
Sitaram: perhaps, but inaction certainly means defeat
Sitaram: if it happens, it will not be the US alone
Jack: but terroism is not a threat to world politics
Sitaram: but, stop and think, each and every nuclear sub has MORE than the
combined destructive power of all 5 years of WWII BOTH SIDES

+++++++++++++++++++

Sitaram: that the free world cannot win against terrorism with conventional moral
warfare
Sitaram: just listen, and go to links later
Sitaram: here is my argument...
Sitaram: suppose you could look in a crystal ball and see the following two senarios
Sitaram: scenario 1, you commit the sin of genocide, killing one sixth of the worlds
population.... but the crystal ball shows you that there will be 1000 years of peace,
freedom, secular democracy
Sitaram: but the other scenario...
********** at 2:01 PM Matt joined the room
Sitaram: on moral grounds, you abstain from genocide with WMD, feeling that
conventional warfare is more moral
Sitaram: and for 100 years, you fight terrorism, until your resources are depleated
Jack: but thats just silly
********** at 2:02 PM Matt left the room
Sitaram: and in your crystal ball, you see the entire world enslaved under theocratic
rule
Sitaram: in 1900, if you described the nazis, people would say THAT IS SILLY
Jack: so u want the us to wipe out the worlds muslim population?
Sitaram: it has nothing whatsoever to do with my personal desires... i am an old man
who shall be dead soon
Sitaram: i really dont care much what the world actually does.
Jack: but that would simply create new terroists
Sitaram: but, i consider the simple arithematic and commonsense of what shall
happen
Jack: i would become a terroist if the us was to do that
Sitaram: perhaps, but inaction certainly means defeat
Sitaram: if it happens, it will not be the US alone
Jack: but terroism is not a threat to world politics
Sitaram: but, stop and think, each and every nuclear sub has MORE than the
combined destructive power of all 5 years of WWII BOTH SIDES
Jack: but nuclear weapons maintain peace
Sitaram: ASK yourself, why does a nation develop such an ability, if they would never
use it
Jack: an unsteady peace
Sitaram: Heisenburg wrote an essay in the 1950s, for the layperson, on quantum and
relativity , in which he said something very interesting
Sitaram: Heisenberg said, Now that nuclear power is out of pandora's box, you will
never be able to say "oh, sorry, that was a mistake" and stuff it back in
Sitaram: the same is true for internet, it is a force unleashed, just like nuclear power,...
and it will take its own course now
Sitaram: nations like iran, under fanatical leaders, will use wmd in a heartbeat, to
strike against "the great satan" even at their own peril
Jack: they wouldn't
Sitaram: and they will do so for the Glory of Allah, in their minds
Jack: iran is too moderate for that
Sitaram: sure they would,.... bin laden would, sadaam would if he had the power
Jack: saddam would not have
Sitaram: why not
Jack: the reply would have been his own destruction
Sitaram: the iranian people, the young people, are moderate, but those in power are
exterme
Jack: saddam was not really very religous
Sitaram: BUT LOOK, sadaam took actions which DID lead to his own destruction
Jack: well he didn't really
Jack: he did not attack the US
Jack: or its allies
Sitaram: if sadaam had played ball with the US, he would have been in power for life,
supported by them
Jack: but saddam was playing by the rules
Sitaram: BUT, saddam's actions lead to the invasion and his execution
Sitaram: the point is, the US did something that sadaam felt they would not do
Jack: but the US only invaded for self interests
Sitaram: we are talking about each side potentially surprising the other side by doing
what everyone assumes is undobable or unthinkable
Jack: nothing to do with saddam
Sitaram: i say, if saddam had played his cards differently, the us would have kept him
in power,... to have his kublah kan pleasuredom indefinitely
Jack: well the us only didn't lik kuwait
Sitaram: stop and think, a US senator openly spoke of nuking the Kaaba in Mecca
Jack: and thats due to US self interests
Jack: the US commanded during the Korean war wanted to nuke chinese and
korean cities
********** at 2:13 PM Mercedes [L.L.] joined the room
Sitaram: Tom Tancredo
Mercedes [L.L.]: Hi everyone
Sitaram: i say that one day, one side or the other, will consider genocide as their only
viable option
Jack: it will never happen
Jack: thats a world not worth living in
Sitaram: and they will lay aside their concern for morality, honor, etc
Sitaram: but, no one ever thought hitler and the nazis would happen
Sitaram: it was unthinkable
Jack: but hitler was an example which we have learnt from
Sitaram: i think it is the idealism of the free world, which will ultimately defeat it
Sitaram: but, fundamentalists and terrorists dont learn from such things
Jack: but they r a tiny minority
Mercedes [L.L.]: A tiny minority who is willing to do anything for their country
Jack: destroying the middle east will not stop terroism
Sitaram: but, the point is, that tiny minority, generation after generation, using their
tactics , can exhaust the resources of the largest nations
Mercedes [L.L.]: Of course not Jack
Jack: mayb destroying the causes of terroism will stop it
Mercedes [L.L.]: But sayin we did makes our country feel more secure with their
government
Sitaram: we are seen as so weak, that when britain wants to put a member of the
royal family in combat, they must hesitate, because of what the terrorists will do

+++++++++

Jack: and thats due to US self interests
Jack: the US commanded during the Korean war wanted to nuke chinese and
korean cities
********** at 2:13 PM Mercedes [L.L.] joined the room
Sitaram: Tom Tancredo
Mercedes [L.L.]: Hi everyone
Sitaram: i say that one day, one side or the other, will consider genocide as their only
viable option
Jack: it will never happen
Jack: thats a world not worth living in
Sitaram: and they will lay aside their concern for morality, honor, etc
Sitaram: but, no one ever thought hitler and the nazis would happen
Sitaram: it was unthinkable
Jack: but hitler was an example which we have learnt from
Sitaram: i think it is the idealism of the free world, which will ultimately defeat it
Sitaram: but, fundamentalists and terrorists dont learn from such things
Jack: but they r a tiny minority
Mercedes [L.L.]: A tiny minority who is willing to do anything for their country
Jack: destroying the middle east will not stop terroism
Sitaram: but, the point is, that tiny minority, generation after generation, using their
tactics , can exhaust the resources of the largest nations
Mercedes [L.L.]: Of course not Jack
Jack: mayb destroying the causes of terroism will stop it
Mercedes [L.L.]: But sayin we did makes our country feel more secure with their
government
Sitaram: we are seen as so weak, that when britain wants to put a member of the
royal family in combat, they must hesitate, because of what the terrorists will do
Jack: mayb the western powers should stop the causes of terroism
Sitaram: if you study the quran, and hadith, as i have, then you will see that it is the
ideological enemy of islamic belief which is the enemy
Sitaram: so, nothing that the nonislamic world does will ever change the fact that they
are the "camp of satan" and must be destroyed or enslaved
Jack: but the western powers justify everything written in it
Sitaram: its not about issues like libenstraum, or taxation, or simple things that can
serve towards appeasement
Jack: there was not this religious threat during most of the 20th century
Jack: its only really been here since the end of the cold war
Sitaram: islam has been gearing up for this since the death of prophet mohammed
Sitaram: in less that 100 years after the prophets death, they had reached jerusalem
with their conquests
Sitaram: the stuggle has always been there
Sitaram: that is the reason for the crusades...
Jack: terroism on the whole comes from poverty
Sitaram: that is the reason for the inquisition, in part
Sitaram: so, they are oil rich more than any country, but it is poverty which causes this
problem
Jack: its the failure of the western world which causes extremism
Sitaram: you see, jack, even if you disagree violently with me, what i have written may
help you with your dissertation, by giving you ideas for things to argue against
Jack: yeah u have
Mercedes [L.L.]: terrorism is nationalism
Jack: but i would be expelled for putting them
Sitaram: and i am pleased if i can help in this fashion
Sitaram: aha, but, jack, you touch on the very problem of the west...
Sitaram: the west is afraid to even speak of what we discuss
Sitaram: you would be censured
Sitaram: but, is that a wise policy for the west....
Jack: well over here holocaust denial is illegal
Sitaram: since, obviously, if politician tancredo can publicly speak of nuking mecca
Sitaram: who is denying the holocaust
Jack: well a lot of people do
Sitaram: i believe the holocaust happend
Jack: such as Mel Gibson
Sitaram: i believe that turkey committed genocide of 1.5 million armenians in 1917
Jack: well the ottoman empire
Mercedes [L.L.]: Rwanda genocide
Jack: no one knows Stalin's figures
Sitaram: what does any of this have to do with your paper, discussion terrorism, and
taking a position AGAINST what people like me say
Jack: but i would not find enough credited scholars with your views
Sitaram: i say that if YOU cannot write your opinions, then education is not worthwhile,
just as you say life in a world which employs genocide is not worthwhile
Sitaram: well, you can be creative, and speak of those in the populace who hold such
opinions
Jack: we can argue anything as long as it has credited backing
Sitaram: but, what of the opinions of the man in the street,... you cannot speak of such
things
Sitaram: you can only quote credited scholars...
Sitaram: that seems rather limiting
Jack: yeah but i cannot credit the men on the street
Sitaram: well, then your educational system has crippled you, has it not
Jack: not really
Sitaram: since the internet is seething with the real opinions of real people, the man in
the street
Jack: the scholars have expert education and well backed theories
Jack: internet is not allowed
Sitaram: but you can only quote scholarly sources which permit footnotes
********** at 2:27 PM Shotoko (big sis) joined the room
Shotoko (big sis): hi
Sitaram: so, your paper becomes an academic exercise in futility
Mercedes [L.L.]: Hi

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