literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org

Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

上善若水,天长地久 says:
Can I ask a question?
Sitaram says:
certainly
Sitaram says:
although, since you are an English major,... i shall be so bold as to make a very subtle correction... which was true in the 1950s but is no AS true today..
Sitaram says:
when I was a child and would say , "Can I eat a cookie" a teacher would answer, "You CAN, but you MAY not"
Sitaram says:
the old fashioned rule is to say "May I ask a question," rather than "Can I"
Sitaram says:
I know such subtleties are most valuable to language majors
上善若水,天长地久 says:
What do you call the meeting gathered (consists of professors)to see if the candidates for MA degree or a PHD?
上善若水,天长地久 says:
to see if the candidates are qualified for a degree?
上善若水,天长地久 says:
in the meeting they are required to defense their thesis or desertation.
Sitaram says:
good question... i seem to remember something... let me think
Sitaram says:
here is one link that calls it a panel
上善若水,天长地久 says:
dissertation
Sitaram says:
http://www.psypag.co.uk/tips/19waysviva.html
上善若水,天长地久 says:
Thank you for your help.
上善若水,天长地久 says:
You mean that nowadays you still say"May I"?

Sitaram says:
http://polaris.gseis.ucla.edu/pagre/network.html
Sitaram says:
in my generation, in the 1950s it was a BIG DEAL,... children were scolded for saying CAN I
Sitaram says:
but now... things are sort of in a decline, going to the dogs
Sitaram says:
As St. Paul said, All thins are possible, but not all things are profitable
上善若水,天长地久 says:
You mean that to say "can I" is impolite? (indecent?)
Sitaram says:
not indecent (which connotes sexuality, or some impropriety) , but merely impolite, unrefined, crude, ignorant..
上善若水,天长地久 says:
Are the too addresses reliable?
上善若水,天长地久 says:
two
Sitaram says:
the links?
上善若水,天长地久 says:
I mean their expressions in English.
上善若水,天长地久 says:
yes
上善若水,天长地久 says:
Are they native speakers?
上善若水,天长地久 says:
or from other countries.
Sitaram says:
i should think so... those links are posted by academic professionals FOR academic professionals
Sitaram says:
i just stumbled across them in google, just now, while searching for an answer to your question...
上善若水,天长地久 says:
you don't know?
Sitaram says:
if you are ever in doubt about a link, post it to my Forum to my attention
Sitaram says:
how could i possibly know something with certainty which i just now found, and read a few sentences
Sitaram says:
but, my common sense tells me where thelinks came from
上善若水,天长地久 says:
what do you call the process when you must past your senior paper before a group of professors?
上善若水,天长地久 says:
I mean the meeting when probably you are required to answer some questions by them to defense it.
上善若水,天长地久 says:
defense your paper.
Sitaram says:
I went through that at St. Johns... they just called them Oral Examinations...
上善若水,天长地久 says:
we call it "oral examination".
上善若水,天长地久 says:
i doubt it.
Sitaram says:
and there were panels once a year with each student and 3 professors, called Don Rags ... to discuss and evaluate...
Sitaram says:
you DOUBT IT,... I was there... i know what the the students called it...
Sitaram says:
you "stand a public oral examination in front of a panel or committee"
Sitaram says:
since we spoke only English, we were not obsessed with concerns regarding precision (ha ha) we simply spoke
上善若水,天长地久 says:
i see.
上善若水,天长地久 says:
so the process should be called "stand the oral examination".
Sitaram says:
no offense... but it is a natural tendence for specialists and academics to become rather stilted and stunted, rather than natural... because they feel compelled to strive too hard..
Sitaram says:
seriously...
上善若水,天长地久 says:
can we say in the examination "I must defend (or defense) my thesis?"
上善若水,天长地久 says:
I doubt our expression not yours.
上善若水,天长地久 says:
I know you are a native English speaker and ABSOLUTELY reliable.
Sitaram says:
yes. definitely,... one "defends their thesis (or position)
Sitaram says:
well.. even I make mistakes... and forget
Sitaram says:
I have a wonderful book here, I think it is Strunck and White on Usage
上善若水,天长地久 says:
I doubt the expression for they call the paper for MA a "dissertation".
上善若水,天长地久 says:
I think "dissertation" should be preserved for PHD, while we call a paper for MA "Thesis".
上善若水,天长地久 says:
This is the reason I suspect they make a mistake in calling the meeting an "oral examination".
上善若水,天长地久 says:
Thank you!
上善若水,天长地久 says:
Is "dissertation" a word specially for doctors?
Sitaram says:
well.. i suppose it is reserved for PhD
Sitaram says:
but perhaps also masters
Sitaram says:
i will tell you an interesting anecdote told to me by a PhD in Clinical Psychology...
Sitaram says:
he said that, while writing his dissertaion,... he met with a committee for a period of several years...
Sitaram says:
they would thrash and argue over each paragraph, until they arrived at the lowest common denominator of what all found safe and exceptable..
Sitaram says:
save and exceptable to publish as a statement of the university
Sitaram says:
therefore, since it was an LCD (lowest common denominator) and the product of a committee process... therefore
Sitaram says:
therefore it was robbed of originality and creativity...
Sitaram says:
there is an old saying "A camel is a horse that has been designed by a committee"
Sitaram says:
horses are beautiful, fast, elegant...
Sitaram says:
camels are ungainly, awkward... homely
上善若水,天长地久 says:
Does it really happen?
上善若水,天长地久 says:
I mean the probability.
上善若水,天长地久 says:
Because I don't think they are so minute in China.
上善若水,天长地久 says:
fastidious
Sitaram says:
well... what this PhD describe was what it was like in HIS university...
上善若水,天长地久 says:
They only want to see if your paper contains anything orginal and they will ignore those minute details.
Sitaram says:
I knew a professor of math at the Univ. of New Haven,... who was head of his department...
Sitaram says:
he said that when Yale granted him his PhD... it was a new program, and they just wanted to push people
Sitaram says:
push candidates through the program
Sitaram says:
so he got his pHd in only two years..
Sitaram says:
then, later, they tightened the requirments
Sitaram says:
I knew another gifted mathematician who was working towards a phd in Math, and realized it might take him 10 years
Sitaram says:
so, he droped out, took a Masters degree as a door prize (that often happens)... and switched to pHd in computer science... which was quicker and paid big bucks
上善若水,天长地久 says:
door prize or door price?
Sitaram says:
the DOOR PRIZE ... means... something of lesser value... given as a courtesy... but not the first prize
上善若水,天长地久 says:
which i guess means the necessary requirement.
Sitaram says:
everyone who comes through the door might get a coffee mug or tee shirt but only one person wins the automobile
上善若水,天长地久 says:
i see
Sitaram says:
someone will say..."Oh, he could not make doctorate, so they gave him a Masters as a door prize and sent him away
Sitaram says:
i knew the tragic case of a man who suffered from mental illness but who was brilliant in other ways...
上善若水,天长地久 says:
can a student from high school directly applies for a doctor degree in USA>
Sitaram says:
he had TWO MASTERS DEGREES.... but they were door prizes, because the institutions saw his instability and wanted him out
上善若水,天长地久 says:
'?
Sitaram says:
oh... no... you must get bachelors, masters... then doctorate
Sitaram says:
4 + 2 + 4 years perhaps... not sure
Sitaram says:
things like Education (teaching) is a big machine that grinds out people...
Sitaram says:
and such people are called "grinds"
上善若水,天长地久 says:
then if they grant him who applies for doctorate a master degree
上善若水,天长地久 says:
he should has two masters.
Sitaram says:
they stay up all night grinding out boring pages of footnotes.... so to speak
Sitaram says:
yes... but, in his field, chemistry... telling people you have TWO masters is like a dead giveaway that
Sitaram says:
that they were door prizes...
Sitaram says:
suppose I told you i had 10 phds... you would think i am weird, and that something is wrong...
Sitaram says:
because... what is the purpose...
Sitaram says:
right?
Sitaram says:
I know a lawyer/CPA , and that combination makes sense... and he is quite brilliant, and a member of MENSA ... a society of people with high IQs
上善若水,天长地久 says:
Certified Public Accountant
Sitaram says:
exactly
Sitaram says:
CPA exam is very hard... few pass it on first try..
Sitaram says:
and we say "I SIT for my exam"
Sitaram says:
or "I SAT for my law exam"
Sitaram says:
I SAT for my CPA exam
Sitaram says:
not to be confused with S.A.T. Scholastic Aptitude Test
上善若水,天长地久 says:
MENSA?
Sitaram says:
it is in google... it is an elite group of people who test very high in I.Q.
Sitaram says:
but... some of them can be unstable.. others, stable, but not wealthy (not that wealth is the only worthwhile goal)
Sitaram says:
and some can be, well, simply uninspired...
Sitaram says:
they might have a high IQ and spend all their time on crossword puzzles...
上善若水,天长地久 says:
Is it worth doing so?
上善若水,天长地久 says:
I think crossword puzzles useless.
Sitaram says:
well, not to companies who market crossword puzzles... and not to the addicts of xword
Sitaram says:
my dad, in his 80s decided to do them every day, with the idea that excercizing the mind in old age wards off alzheimers...
Sitaram says:
and... Rupert Sheldrake, originator of theories on Morphis Resonance... studied how people do crossword puzzles in Great Britain
Sitaram says:
one puzzle would appear one day, in London,... and a day or two later in a remote area... and statistically... the folks in the remote area finished them faster..
Sitaram says:
without having looked at the london issue..
Sitaram says:
the idea being that, once one creature learns something,... there is morphic resonance.. and suddenly all the other creatures may learn more easily...
Sitaram says:
like one genius monkey discovers how to wash potatoes of sand in the water.... and others learn by seeing...
Sitaram says:
but then, in remote areas, other genius monkeys appear more readily
Sitaram says:
so.. you see, crossword puzzles can be of profound significance, financially, or scientifically...
上善若水,天长地久 says:
but there are more important things in the world.
上善若水,天长地久 says:
to notice
上善若水,天长地久 says:
that is why the Chinese ancestors pay little attention to the universe.
Sitaram says:
interesting
上善若水,天长地久 says:
they don't care if the origin of the universe is water or air or void
Sitaram says:
Rabbi Abraham Heschel said: "We must attemt to understand what we see, and not simply see only that which we understand."
Sitaram says:
Abraham Maslow said: "When the only tool you have is a hammer, then every problem tends to become a nail."
上善若水,天长地久 says:
In the west,Holmes Sherlock cares nothing except those concerning his cases.
上善若水,天长地久 says:
The Chinese ancestors cared about life.
上善若水,天长地久 says:
The secrets of life and how to life.
上善若水,天长地久 says:
to live
上善若水,天长地久 says:
Because these problems are of urgent importance.
Sitaram says:
yes... but... suppose part of that secret lies in what we presumed to be unimportant?
Sitaram says:
not saying that I know anything that you dont
上善若水,天长地久 says:
the problems lies in whether they had found it or not.
Sitaram says:
at our forum, Mockingbird asked me which is the best culture, so I answered by saying "the best culture is the one which never feels the need to ask the question which is the best culture"
Sitaram says:
she is in Pakistan
上善若水,天长地久 says:
your answer is the best answer I ever heard.
上善若水,天长地久 says:
I've ever heard till now.
上善若水,天长地久 says:
and a right one.
Sitaram says:
and, it just popped into my head... genius-potatowashing-monkey that I am
Sitaram says:
but.. getting back to morphic resonance... my clever statement has a FORM, and resonates with other sayings of a similar FORM
上善若水,天长地久 says:
and a person of wisdom never doubts about that.
Sitaram says:
so... those similar ideas, shape my mind, and make it a receptical shaped properly for a new, but simililarly formed thought or observation
上善若水,天长地久 says:
never pursues truth.
Sitaram says:
but you see... in the ancient Sanskrit Vedas, it say, "May noble thoughts come to us from all sides"
Sitaram says:
and Shakaracharya of the ninth centure C.E. said "thoughts pour into the mind from elsewhere, outside the mind, like molten metal into a mold."
上善若水,天长地久 says:
and?
Sitaram says:
well.. there are TWO ANCIENT sources which basically speak in terms of sheldrakes MORPHIC RESONANCE... that thoughts come from outside us... and our minds are furthermore shaped, prepared
Sitaram says:
as my own example indicates.. how my mind was shaped by past wise sayings... to be able to apply that shape in a new situation
Sitaram says:
and to do it instinctively.... spontaneously, extemporaneously
Sitaram says:
so that even I am surprised by the thought which seems to come from nowhere
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
actually then come not from outside but from inside.
Sitaram says:
well, that is what Rupert Sheldrake debates...
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
The universe in your heart is like a cloud in the sky.
Sitaram says:
one great secret of good scholars is to always hold final judgment in abeyance (or at bay)... and to exercise equinimity, and another good word that escapes me at the moment...
Sitaram says:
FOREBEARANCE (SPELLING)
Sitaram says:
FORBEARANCE
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
what do you mean by it?

Sitaram says:
forbearance means, you hold back, from making final decision... remain open
Sitaram says:
Socrates has two nicknames in Platos dialogues
Sitaram says:
sometimes, he is called NARKE, which in ancient Greek means "stingray" a kind of sea creature which stings and numbs.... we get our word NARCotic from Narke
Sitaram says:
the other word is GADFLY, who bites and rouses up... like a horse bothered by gadflys, who begins to gallop
Sitaram says:
well,... the Narke name comes from Socrates habit to sometimes STING someone into the numb motionlessness of APORIA which means "no way out"
Sitaram says:
to get them to admit "I really do not know"
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
you are metaphorizing me?
Sitaram says:
and this refutation is a cure to their mind, to prepare them for philosophy...
Sitaram says:
but.. the gadfly name, refers to giving hope to the hopless, through something like myth.. that they have some hope of gaining enlightenment
Sitaram says:
i do not understand your question metaphorizing me
Sitaram says:
these are not metaphors... this is the bread and butter of socratic dialectical inquiry
Sitaram says:
we are aided in our understanding by the metaphor
Sitaram says:
but... words are like metaphors, like a finger pointing at the the moon... the finger is certainly not the moon... but that does not mean that no moon exists
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
to be a gadfly is good to others and bad to himself.
Sitaram says:
but... again .. you fall to the temptation to make a judgment, rather than excercise forbearance
Sitaram says:
such tactics/moves only impede your own understanding/learning
Sitaram says:
Socrates said "The gods do not LOVE wisdom (PHILO-sophia) because they POSSESS it
Sitaram says:
we only LOVE that which is slightly out of reach..
Sitaram says:
as RUmi said... do not seek water, for water is everywhere, SEEK THIRST
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
I definitely agree with you.
Sitaram says:
you have a good mind... association with you is good for me...
Sitaram says:
when minds join in dialogue... something magical happens, that could never happen to us in our solitude
Sitaram says:
in the solitude of our private thoughts
Sitaram says:
this is the beauty of internet, chat, forum
Sitaram says:
and search engines
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
the internet is like a sword, it cuts and it saves.
Sitaram says:
the sword of damocles, which cut the gordian knot
Sitaram says:
or was that alexander the great
Sitaram says:
Socrates taught Plato, Plato taught Aristotle, Aristotle TUTORED Alexander the Great
Sitaram says:
a most interesting Quartet
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
how?
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
you mean...
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
the sword began to kill ?
Sitaram says:
the gordian knot was a very large complex knot... many had tried to undo it... one day someone came along and simply cut it with his sword
Sitaram says:
so, we now speak of insoluable problems as gordian knots
Sitaram says:
but... their solution is like the sword which cuts through them...
Sitaram says:
but.. there is also a commentary here upon might versus reason
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
but Alexander the great didn't solve the problem using his sword.
Sitaram says:
someone did,... cant remember.. must google
Sitaram says:
When Alexander arrived in Gordium (west of modern Ankara, Turkey, March 333 BC) he found an interesting problem - the Gordian knot. The Gordian knot was tied by the legendary King Midas ('the Midas touch'). The huge and complicated knot held a chariot together and had no ends exposed.
Alexander did one of two things: he pulled out one beam, thus exposing an end, or more probably hacked it with hi
Sitaram says:
http://www.pothos.org/alexander.a...rd_id=16&title=Gordian%20Knot
Sitaram says:
this site looks REALLY intelligent
Sitaram says:
A super philsophical website
Sitaram says:
http://www.pothos.org
Sitaram says:
this is their forum though http://www.pothos.org/forum/
Sitaram says:
they would be much better off with a free forum like this one...
Sitaram says:
i mean phpbb
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
?
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
can't open?
Sitaram says:
oh well.. must be blocked, or something
Sitaram says:
it is a forum dedicated to Alexander the Great
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
can't open still
Sitaram says:
sorry about that
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
but we mean different things.
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
you mean the actual Gordian Knot
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
I mean the "Gordian Knot" Alexander's teacher's teacher's teacher tried to unlock.
Sitaram says:
yes... the actual gordian knot, located in Gordium, supposedly tied by king Midas, which tradition says Alexander visited and either unravelled or cut
Sitaram says:
it is not clear which
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
The problem Socrates tried to solve remains unsolved until today, not saying Alexander.,
Sitaram says:
but... the unanswerable question is the unmoved mover of the soul
Sitaram says:
there are questions which empower, which are more valuable than any answer
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
yes
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
All the philosophies, the literatures, the sciences are pursuing similar goals.
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
they can be finalized to countable few ones.
Sitaram says:
truth is one, paths are many
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
our best choice is to try those paths that have been claimed solved the problems.
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
to have solved the problems.
Sitaram says:
only forbearance allow us to stand back and see the roadmap of those paths
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
because we don't have too much time to waste or to walk the old ways proved fruitless.
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
to decide requires wisdom.
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
for the easiest problem appears the hardest.
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
cleverness bears small fruits.
The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
by the way I often use this tool:

The highest good is like that of Water; Heaven is eternal, the Earth everlasting. says:
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Gordian_Knot
Sitaram says:
thanks... i shall investigate

Get your own free IRC Chat room