literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org

Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

http://sulekha.com/chpost.asp?for...ilosophy&show=0&cid=82696

I was thinking this morning about the place of gratitude in
philosophy. Is there something philosophical about the feeling of
gratitude. The question is interesting in the situation of an atheist
who feels gratitude, in the sense of "grateful to whom or what." We
may feel gratitude towards a teacher. We may feel gratitude towards
random chance and circumstance. There is much discussion in recent
times regarding "chaos", an extreme form of randomness which yet
always seems to harbour order.

May we feel gratitude for chaos? May we feel gratitude TO chaos?
It seems to me that an essential question is: "If there is gratitude
at all, then gratitude towards what or whom, and why."

a definition is (by DEFINITION) a form of order (i.e. how might one
RECOGNIZE chaos, define chaos), so we are striving to define that
which in essence should be undefinable

I once had a professor who said "there is no such thing as a foolish
question, but cause if it is a question for YOU, then it is valid to
ask it. There are only foolish answers."

The value of a sign is not the sign itself, or its shape, material,
calligraphy, height, shape, no.. the value of a sign is in WHERE it
points, and WHAT it points to. signs direct. the value lies also in
WHOM it directs (who sees it)

The "sin" of chaos is order

Are there signs in chaos, and if so, where do they point

In the early centuries of christianity, a number of bishops were
gathered to consecrate a new bishop. after the ceremony, one old
bishop walked up to the new bishop, pointed to a nearby road sign,
and said "be careful that you do not become like that sign over
there, which points the way for others, but goes not there itself."
(speaking of signs) - How might this story go if they were
philosophers and not bishops, I wonder?

Tolstoy pointed out one irony regarding power, namely, when we
exercise power over people, then, in an odd way, we become dependent
upon them

Love is a place, and through this place of love pass (with brightness
of peace) all places - e.e. cummings

es is a world, and in this world of yes live (skillfully curled) all
worlds - e.e. cummings

We impose meaning on our world, we find meaning, meaning does not
find us

Perhaps everything is interdependent, the net of indra, at each
intersection, a mirror or eye, reflecting every other intersection

One thing i rarely (i wont say never) but rarely do is criticize (or
ridicule), and there is a good reason not to: namely, such activity
will not profit me, and secondly, even a fool may spark an idea in
others, so even foolishness and gibberish may serve some constructive
purpose: (an how different is gibberish from chaos?)

Perhaps the INTERnet is like indra's net, at each intersection is an
eye (or "I") which reflects (upon) all the other intersections

Beware. when you stare into the void, the void stares back, into
you. - nietzsche

nietzsche was a neat guy, but then perhaps his "void" was
Jung's "shadow"

and what shall i find just now, should i google search on "nietzsce
void jung shadow". (i wonder!)

Einstein said (tongue in cheek): "we must simplify as much as
possible, but no further."

Class, our assignment this week is to reduce all of chaos to one
equation which expresses all things

Milton, in paradise lost, had his character, Satan, say: "Evil, be
thou my good." Is there a problem with such a goal?

In the first sentence of Genesis, "darkness and void" (tohu va bohu
in hebrew), is not said to be created. it is simply there. In the
latin vulgate, "fiat LUX" (from which we get our term fiat), "let
there be light", the light was created but the tohu va bohu seems to
have already been there. is tohu va bohu chaos?

We must totally master something first before we truly earn the right
(or should i say authority) to reject or dismiss it

The best weapon against boredom is to become interesting and say
something profound

I try to be subtle and politically correct in my criticisms, to avoid
ad hominem

Which reminds me of Leo Strauss, "Persecution and the Art of Writing"
(substitute boot/ban for persecution and you have IRC)

How may we say something without appearing to say something and say
it only to whom we wish, though we address a multitude

Omar Khayam's poem is an interesting example, writing in a strict
oppressive islamic society, the Rubayat

I suppose in a different sense, Darwin's Origin of the Species is an
example (though the author was surprised in 1858 when his little book
shook the world, and everyone who had a few shillings bought a copy

All who take interest in ideas are doomed to elitism, since they are
joining such a small and persecuted minority

plato speaks several times regarding the "midwife", to help others
give birth to their own, ... I wonder if every work of authorship is
some disguised attempt at re-creation, reproduction (or should i say
cloning)

There never seems to be a shortage of prejudice or violence in the
world (it is like mud or soil), whereas tolerance, open-mindedness,
nonviolence are like flecks of gold in that mud and soil

No parent ever has to scold their child for always giving away all
their toys and candy to the neighborhood children

Regarding your point of "self-fulfilling" prophecy,... I am reminded
of Plato's point that the best guardian must of necessity also be the
best thief... and our democracies who "fight for peace",... fight
dragons long enough and you become a dragon

The best author of anti-virus software must of necessity embody the
qualities of the best hacker

It is certainly true that, without evolution, genetic engineering
could not take place (if indeed the apes evolved into engineers)

An old saying in India: a saint can see saintliness in even the worst
of sinners, while a sinner can find sinfulness even in the holiest of
saints.

Another saying from India: when a pick-pocket meets a saint, all he
sees are pockets

Get your own free IRC Chat room