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Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

http://sulekha.com/chpost.asp?for...ilosophy&show=0&cid=81943

I see the vanished races of north American Indians, who dwelt for
millenia in that continent, as being very hardy because of natural
selection, and kept hardy as a race by the rigors of survival, while
modern man becomes progressively weaker, less robust as a species
because of all our high tech, and increasing dependence on things
like antibiotics, surgical procedures, insulin, etc etc., which in
the short run greatly benefit individuals, but in the long run weaken
the species.

(a neprhologist is discussing his field in #philosophy irc)

I have no real definite notion as to WHY, but it is interesting that
the heart is emphasized more in scriptures, but that the kidneys are
also mentioned, that there was some awareness of such anatomy in
ancient times.

Here is a URL with all references to the kidneys in the Bible

http://www.allstarz.org/bible/word_reins.htm

Job 16:13 His archers compass me round about, he cleaveth my reins
asunder, and doth not spare; he poureth out my gall upon the ground.

Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold,
and not another; [though] my reins be consumed within me.

Psalms 7:9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but
establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and
reins.

Psalms 16:7 I will bless the LORD, who hath given me counsel: my
reins also instruct me in the night seasons.

Psalms 26:2 Examine me, O LORD, and prove me; try my reins and my
heart.

Psalms 73:21 Thus my heart was grieved, and I was pricked in my
reins.

Psalms 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me
in my mother's womb.

Proverbs 23:16 Yea, my reins shall rejoice, when thy lips speak
right things.

Isaiah 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and
faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Jeremiah 11:20 But, O LORD of hosts, that judgest righteously, that
triest the reins and the heart, let me see thy vengeance on them: for
unto thee have I revealed my cause.

Jeremiah 12:2 Thou hast planted them, yea, they have taken root:
they grow, yea, they bring forth fruit: thou [art] near in their
mouth, and far from their reins.

Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, [I] try the reins, even
to give every man according to his ways, [and] according to the fruit
of his doings.

Jeremiah 20:12 But, O LORD of hosts, that triest the righteous,
[and] seest the reins and the heart, let me see thy vengeance on
them: for unto thee have I opened my cause.

Lamentations 3:13 He hath caused the arrows of his quiver to enter
into my reins.

Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the
churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and
hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your
works.

================

Amoral nature, with its natural selection and survival of the
fittest, seems to have a very different agenda (which favors groups
and species over individuals), but our society now seems to place the
well-being and interest of the individual above the well-being and
interests of the group as a whole

In short, nature makes it difficult for the weak and defective to
pass their genes on to another generation, but medicine and modern
technology makes it easy for even the infertile to pass on their
genetic traits to future generations (to me this is so patently
obvious)

Yes, of course, but then all those little pathogens turn around and
produce thousands of generations in a short time, and evolve a
resistant strain, so the we develop a different antibiotic, and so it
goes, on and on, in a vicious cycle, a Catch-22

As individuals, certainly we benefit from this medicine and
technology, but as a species we were obviously better off under the
amoral natural scheme of survival of the fittest, whereas now, as a
species, we are gradually becoming weakened and dependent upon that
medicine and technology

Mind you, i am not saying whether this increased dependence upon
medicine and technology and genetic engineering, and this increasing
weakness as a species,.. i am not saying whether it is bad or good in
the long run.... but I am pointing it out as an observable phenomenon

I realize that what I am about to say is a far-fetched scenario, but
it is not totally outside the realm of possiblity and technology...
but imagine that genetic engineering made huge strides, and was
capable of totally re-engineering and redesigning the essential human
nature

Suppose, further, that the technology of artificial intelligence made
tremendous strides of advance, and was able to create true artifical
intelligence, equalling or excelling human intelligence

Furthermore, suppose that humanity as a whole were able to unite, and
see "the handwriting on the wall" with regard to our solar system's
eventual destruction several billion years from now, through
supernova of our sun (or much earlier through some enormous asteroid
striking the earth)

Back to my far-fetched scenario: humanity, seeing the eventual
destruction of our solar system through super nova, creates vehicles
for deep space, interstellar search, for another earth-like planet,
piloted by the artificial intelligence robots which have a
consciousness equal to or exceeding humans,... and human re-
engineered genetic material is on board, to be deployed if and when
another planet is found

IF such a far-fetched eventuality were to take place, THEN the
temporary weakening and dependence of mankind upon antibiotics and
medical technology would be but a temporary phase, as technology
matured, and ultimately that future technology would be the savior
not only of human life, but also the preserver of all culture, art,
science, philosophy

On the other hand, if we cannot unite as one world nation, with such
a common goal... if we squander time and resources in endless
guerilla wars, then we shall never be able to accomplish such a goal,
and when the earth is destroyed by whatever cataclysm (as it
ultimately will), then that is the end of our human history, and in
some way, all will have been for nothing

I considered the issue of the malevolence/evil of some beings who
posses advanced powerful technology, and it occured to me that such a
race would of necessity have destroyed itself long ago with its own
technology had it not addressed its shortcoming of greed, anger,
vengence, hatred... so I see a powerful advanced race of beings as
of necessity benevolent (as a prerequisite for surviving with
superpower)

It is interesting that the psalms say: "three score years and ten are
the years alloted to a man, and perhaps 4 score (80), and whatever is
beyond that is toil and travail" ... and we see this figure of 80 as
meaningful today,.... and life beyond 80, artificially prolonged, is
no bowl of cherries

It has occured to me that man, through technology, is ever striving
towards omnipotence (hey why not, if you can do it), and omniscience
(a grand theory of everything in physics). Man does try to be God.

I wrote a little story entitled "Attack of the Uberachnid", to
explore certain of these notions, and concepts of ethics, it is an
interesting "what if" scenario.... (dont forget, Einstein as a
teenager imagined the "what if" scenario of riding upon a beam of
light)

http://www.indolink.com/Forum/Arts-Culture/messages/4407.html

Meditation on Power (by Sitaram)

What is "Power"?

The essence of what it means to be a living organism, is to STRIVE
for, light, warmth, food, seeking pleasure, avoiding pain, a struggle
in quest of POWER.

Think about little microbes, striving towards light, nourishment, the
very struggle which is essential in survival. It seems to me that the
concept of POWER is at the heart of such instincts. This struggle
begins on a molecular level as an organic chemical reaction process,
and ends on a meta-personal level of corporations, nations and
ideologies, struggling for power.

We see all life forms STRUGGLE to survive, propagate, so that
STRUGGLE seems primary.

But somehow, inherent in the notion of STRUGGLE, is power, since
struggling itself is a FORCE, and one struggles AGAINST some other
FORCE, and power lies in one force PREVAILING over some opposing
force. So diversity, difference and opposition is essential for the
illusion of power to manifest. There is no power where there is no
obstacle or opposition. We cannot be Quixotic without windmills.

In the evolutionary scheme of things, gradually, complex
consciousness and introspection is ushered and the whole mental world
of dualities, antinomies, good and evil, pleasure and pain, truth and
falsehood...etc.

Vegetarians & ATTACK OF THE UBER-

RACHNID - Page 382

http://www.geocities.com/tulsidas_ramayan/page382.htm

Vegetarians & ATTACK OF THE UBER-RACHNID - Page 382

Allow me to pose for all of you a futuristic science-fiction scenario
which will exercise your "moral calculus."

Firstly, we assume that self-defense to defend our lives and
existence is morally justified. Secondly, we assume that killing of
lower species for food or sport is harmless, and that murder only
involves killing the one higher species, man, because man has speech,
a soul.

But let us imagine that an alien creature arrives on planet earth,
which is SO HIGHLY evolved that human beings appear as dumb primates
in comparison. These superbeings communicate TELEPATHICALLY and,
furthermore ALL OF THEIR MINDS are interconnected as ONE SUPERBRAIN.
These superior beings view us in the same light that we view gorillas
and chimpanzees. They see us as capable of some curious tricks, but
as not possessing what they define as a "soul." Obviously, we use
only verbal language and we are incapable of telepathic
communication. Furthermore, if we even possess a soul (which they
deem doubtful), we are not INTERCONNECTED telepathically as a
SUPERSOUL. Let us give a name to these alien creatures. I shall call
them UBER-RACHNIDS (from Nietzsche's UBERMAN or superman, and the
Greek word "arachnid" meaning spider).

Now, this species of SUPERBEING, the UBER-RACHNID, has a highly
specialized digestive system. They may ONLY LIVE by finding warm
blooded creatures, inserting their long needle-like fangs into the
veins of their victims, and slowing absorbing the body-fluids in a
slow, agonizing process with takes several hours, before the victim
finally dies.

Now, question number one, how different is the UBER-RACHNID moral
justification for harvesting and eating humans any different from the
human justification for harvesting and eating lower mammals. In fact,
the UBER-RACHNID has more of an excuse for its eating habits, since
it CANNOT choose to be vegetarian, whereas humans DO have a
vegetarian choice.

In light of the superior nature of the UBER_RACHNID, are humans
really justified any longer in perceiving themselves as the highest
form of life? Can the humans really assume that they possess a soul,
since obviously they do not possess the SUPERSOUL of the
telepathically interconnected Uber-Rachnids.

Such a moral dilemma! If the humans DO have it in their power to
exterminate the entire Uber-Rachnid species, rendering it extinct,
then in some sense they commit a CRIME against intelligence and life
itself. For you see, apart from the Uber-rachnid's unpleasant dining
habits, they are THE MOST ADMIRABLE community of beings ever to
appear in the universe! Crime is unknown amongst the Uber-Rachnid.
Poverty is unknown! All diseases have been conquered among the Uber-
Rachnid! Furthermore, the Uber-Rachnid have offered to make human
life a paradise on earth, and each human will be granted 100 years of
life and enjoyment IN THE PERFECT HEALTH AND APPEARANCE OF A TWENTY
year old youth! All that the Uber-Rachnid ask of us is that at the
end of the hundred years, each person voluntarily report to the Uber-
Rachnid Cafeteria, to be consumed. The Uber-Rachnid have even devised
an anesthetic drug which will not only eliminate any discomfort
during the process of being eaten, but will also have mind altering
mood altering psychedelic properties such that the victim being
consumed will feel that they are in a paradise of ecstasy, and their
relative perception of time will be so altered that they will
perceived their last few hours of consciousness as an unending
eternity of bliss.

It seems that the Uber-Rachnid are far more thoughtful, compassionate
generous to their human herds than humans ever were to their cattle.

=====

One reader replies

http://www.sulekha.com/philosophy/messages/36616.html

Parts of your thesis are along the lines of Peter Singer.

1) There is no such construct as Ethics in evolution. It is amoral.
Creatures do what they have to survive. Society, which benefits
individual survival was formed and rules constructed for the game,
just as stags in heat constructed (unconsciously) rules of
engagement, which by trial and error and blind chance and necessity
lead to an evolutionary stable strategy.

2) From the philosophical point of view, I recommend Bernard Williams
book Ethics and the limits of Philosophy.

3) Even on artificially constructed the premise of eating us is
philosophically wrong. We are sentient beings with speech and a sense
of the future and past. We have anticipatory expectations of death
and the pursuit of happiness. We have dreams and hopes. The
Uberachnid may have more advanced science technology, which they have
personally conceived, planned and used to manufacture miraculous
gadgets, but the analogy is what the Europeans did to the Tasmanians,
Africans and American Indians, which we condemn now. Appetites for
power, wealth, sex or food cannot be justified ethically in all cases
and need no philosophical analysis evolutionarily.

Evolution emphasizes survival and reproduction at all costs yet is
responsible for evolving a brain which is focused on a sense of
justice.

This led to god and religion but also to ego. Is it possible for an
intelligent person to be consistently honest? If survival is all
important, what is the role of integrity and principle?

Is the American Indian way better or the African-American way? Am I
unnecessarily agonizing over Hamlet's dilemma? Was Karna, the hero of
Mahabharata or was it Yudhishthir or Arjuna? Was Antigone right or
Kreon? Did Tennyson say it all in Ulysses or The Lotus Eaters? Which
group is right, Steven Weinberg and Sartre, Mother Teresa and Gandhi,
or J .Paul Getty and Mick Jagger? Is it better to fight and run away
and live to fight another day or behave like Ajax defying Jupiter?
Does it always make sense to draw a Lakshmanrekha, for oneself and
others not to transgress? If even the synapses, which constitute
hardware show plasticity, are rigid principles and behavior contrary
to survival, laudable or to be shunned. Did Socrates die in vain?

Where is the representation of ethics and morality in the brain? What
is the basis of consciousness? What is the nature of qualia? How did
life and the universe begin? How does one understand or explain
quantum paradoxes? What is the nature of causality?

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