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Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

http://sulekha.com/chpost.asp?for...ilosophy&show=0&cid=88381

Philosophy chat:

The room topic is: Eventually all knowledge helps people more than
it hurts them. Comments?

One person comments:

I don't think knowledge beyond what is required to live day to day is
beneficial in any greater scheme

Sitaram replies:

Your statement is an important one for people to consider...
regarding day to day success in survival...

An ancient Taoist-NeoConfucian philosopher wrote, "That which the
ordinary man or woman can comprehend and put into practice in
everyday life is true doctrine, while that which is esoteric and
cannot be understood or practiced by the average person is heresy."

Regarding the notion of knowledge harming or hurting us,... I am
reminded of Santayana (was it he?) who said that one of man's unique
assets is his ability to find himself contemptible (or wanting): the
unique human ability to feel self-loathing.

We might attempt to enumerate all the things which are contemptible
about mankind as a species, and compare that list with everything
which we deem to be admirable

It occurred to me only the other day that we love praise and dislike
criticism, yet we rarely benefit from praise, but from criticism we
may possible undertake to improve ourselves and become better than we
were

In a like manner, we seek pleasure and avoid pain, yet pleasure
rarely benefits us (and sometimes destroys us), while pain and
discomfort often protect us from something harmful, or motivate us to
undertake some difficult course of action which leads to improvement

As Arnold Schwartznegger one said (in "Pumping Iron") , "No pain no
gain"

The ancient Greeks said: "Mathemata pathemata", "sufferings are
lessons"

One aspect of maturity is the ability to postpone immediate
gratification for the sake of achieving some long range goal, which
involves discipline and dedication

We discipline ourselves to endure the immediate lesser suffering of a
dental procedure, in order to postpone the greater suffering in the
future of an abscess, loss of teeth, etc

I am thinking suddenly of Maslow's pyramid of needs.... at the broad
base of the pyramid is air, water, food, shelter, sleep... at higher
narrower levels of the pyramid are praise, companionship, but at the
pinnacle of the pyramid is the need for transcendence, for the sake
of which people sometimes forsake the needs of lower levels (even
food and shelter)

Someone comments "I always thought Maslow was full of crap"

And what did Maslow think of you?

They answer: "nothing"

Well, that in itself speaks volumes.

There is an amusing story from India about a youth who approached a
wise man ... the wise man said, "What do you desire most," and the
youth answered "wisdom, enlightenment"... the wise man said "come
with me to this pond," so the wise man held the youth's head under
water for 2 minutes, and then let him up and asked him "what do you
most desire now" ... "Air!" was the youth's answer

This is Maslow's pyramid seen from a different angle

As I further consider the earlier topic: "Eventually all knowledge
helps people more than it hurts them", I begin to consider the
technological progress of the human race. If our technology enables
us to one day to avert some cataclysm (say an asteroid collision),
then our cumulative knowledge will have preserved the earth, but if
we perish in some self-inflicted thermonuclear holocaust, then our
cumulative knowledge will have brought about our doom

Someone comments: War is bad.

Sitaram observes:

Yet it was the motivation of the two world wars which advanced
aviation and rocket technology by leaps and bounds, ironically war is
a great incentive for scientific advance,.... similarly, computer
sciences advanced by leaps and bounds in capitalistic societies
motivated by the "war" for profits, while in socialist and communist
societies there was nothing to motivate the advance of computer
science

Ancient Buddhist teachings were perhaps the beginnings of the
psychology of cognitive therapy (my cup is not half empty but half
full)

One might add the teacher of Marcus Aurelius, Epictetus, as the
precursor to cognitive therapy (or psychology in general)

Epictetus wrote: "When your child embarks upon a perilous journey,
you pray to Jupiter for their safe return,.... but why not rather
pray for the equanimity to accept any eventuality calmly, whether
fortunate or misfortune

Someone comments: Why pray at all? Why not just grow up.

Sitaram says:

Part of "growing up" is putting in a lot of long hard work reading
all the great minds of history, so that we may speak with some
substance, rather than be dilettantes and just skim the surface of
everything

We cant build a tall tower unless we first dig a deep foundation

It is easy to climb up on a soap box, but it is difficult to climb a
mountain

I was thinking more about a mountain of books which someone labors to
absorb over a period of years (that foundation which we dig in order
to erect a tower)

I should steal that military motto and make it: "Be all that you can
be, in the library"

Death makes life possible just as life makes death possible

Woody Allen said: "I am not afraid of dying, I just don't want to be
there when it happens."

My statement is quite obvious when one considers a biological food
chain... or an ecosystem

The herd of gazelle need the lions to keep them fit through natural
selection and to prevent starvation through overpopulation, while it
is quite obvious why the lions need the herd of gazelle

A little knowledge is dangerous. a little bit of learning goes a long
way (but that is not necessarily a desirable thing)

The question is posed: Is ignorance bliss, or is it better to know?

Sitaram comments:

How can you be sure when you know (aye, there's the rub), which
suggest that there is such a thing as "a knowledge of knowledge"

For Kurt Godel, "2 + 2 = 4" is a mathematical statement, while the
assertion "2 + 2 = 4 IS TRUE" is a METAMATHEMATICAL statement.

SFG75 · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:16 pm Post subject:

Maslow's hierarchy of needs is an important part of many teacher education programs across the country. While a person may progress to the higher rungs of needs if one or more at the bottom are not met, it certainly is true that it makes it that much more difficult for a person to succeed. If a family is poor and has no social capital, the person can overcome that through sheer determination. In seeing some kids in this kind of environment, I wonder if it isn't a blessing for them in all reality, as it has given them a spark, a reason to do well.

What I find interesting is why you can take two students in similar situations(i.e.-an abusive or impoverished home, where life is chaotic) that one person can't pull out of it, and another gains drive and determinatino to change their fate.

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