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Sitaram · Site Admin Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1079

Date: Sat Jul 19, 2003 8:29 am
Subject: An Ever-Wavering Flame

http://www.sulekha.com/chpost.asp...ilosophy&cid=66982&show=0

Sitaram: A flame is ever flickering, wavering, changing.... yet this
inconstancy does not mean that the flame give no light.

Consciousness is energy

Divinity is consciousness

It is the nature of energy to fluctuate (flicker), like a candle flame

Therefore, seek that coming-to-be and passing-away which ITSELF does
not come to be nor pass away

====================================
One reader replies

Dear Sitaram:

Parts of your thesis are along the lines of Peter Singer.

1) There is no such construct as Ethics in evolution. It is amoral.
Creatures do what they have to survive. Society, which benefits
individual survival was formed and rules constructed for the game,
just as stags in heat constructed (unconsciously) rules of
engagement, which by trial and error and blind chance and necessity
lead to an evolutionary stable strategy.

2) From the philosophical point of view, I recommend Bernard
Williams book Ethics and the limits of Philosophy.

3) Even on artificially constructed the premise of eating us is
philosophically wrong. We are sentient beings with speech and a sense
of the future and past. We have anticipatory expectations of death
and the pursuit of happiness. We have dreams and hopes. The
Uberachnid may have more advanced science technology, which they have
personally conceived, planned and used to manufacture miraculous
gadgets, but the analogy is what the Europeans did to the Tasmanians,
Africans and American Indians, which we condemn now. Appetites for
power, wealth, sex or food cannot be justified ethically in all cases
and need no philosophical analysis evolutionarily.Evolution
emphasizes survival and reproduction at all costs yet is responsible
for evolving a brain which is focused on a sense of justice. This led
to God and religion but also to ego. Is it possible for an
intelligent person to be consistently honest? If survival is all
important, what is the role of integrity and principle?

Is the American Indian way better or the African-American way? Am I
unnecessarily agonizing over Hamlet's dilemma? Was Karna, the hero of
Mahabharata or was it Yudhishthir or Arjuna? Was Antigone right or
Kreon? Did Tennyson say it all in Ulysses or The Lotus Eaters? Which
group is right, Steven Weinberg and Sartre, Mother Teresa and Gandhi,
or J .Paul Getty and Mick Jagger? Is it better to fight and run away
and live to fight another day or behave like Ajax defying Jupiter?
Does it always make sense to draw a Lakshmanrekha, for oneself and
others not to transgress? If even the synapses, which constitute
hardware show plasticity, are rigid principles and behavior contrary
to survival, laudable or to be shunned. Did Socrates die in vain?

Where is the representation of ethics and morality in the brain? What
is the basis of consciousness? What is the nature of qualia? How did
life and the universe begin? How does one understand or explain
quantum paradoxes? What is the nature of causality?

===================================

The English word "pray" come from a root which means "to beg"
or "entreat".

The Hebrew word for "pray," "hithpallel" is a reflexive verb
meaning "to judge oneself".

=====================================

To waver, like a candle flame

============================

Shokeling Shucklen shokel

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/891201_Shokeling.html

The Meaning of Shokeling

The picture of a Jew swaying to and fro in prayer or religious study
is one that I have long been inclined to explain on "practical"
grounds. During lengthy periods of standing, it saves wear and tear
on the feet. It also enhances one's concentration. As you focus upon
the book before your eyes, it is the rest of your surroundings that
appear to be swaying in a vague blur, and hence you are less likely
to be distracted by the temptations of the environment.

Rabbi Nahman of Bratslav (1770-1811), the Baal Shem's grandson,
taught: "If you are not at peace with the world, your prayer will not
be heard. Forget everybody and everything during your prayers;
forget yourself and your needs; forget the people of whom you have
need..."

http://www.kolel.org/pages/reb_on_the_web/bodyprayer.html

http://www.kolel.org/pages/reb_on_the_web/bodyprayer.html

The swaying and bowing that accompany traditional Jewish prayer. The
swaying motion is called "shukling" in anglicized
Yiddish. "Davvening" (also anglicized Yiddish) refers more to the
recitation of the prayers, especially the Ashkenazic style of
reciting them in an undertone.
How could prayer not be a bodily experience? We are embodied beings!
Even sitting quietly, or standing without motion, are things we do
with our bodies that convey certain spiritual messages to ourselves
and to those around us.

http://media.fastclick.net/w/pop....2&CK=N&JS=N&c=6781626

The verse in Psalms says: "With all my bones, God, I shall praise
you." So Jews like to get their whole body involved in prayer. The
swaying is also a form of meditative concentration

http://headcoverings-by-devorah.com/OrachChayim/HebglossSh.html

http://www.bridgesforpeace.com/publications/teaching/Article-25.html

Visitors to Israel are often perplexed when seeing a Jewish person
praying. Lost in prayer, they sway, rocking back and forth as he or
she addresses the Lord. Jews call prayer by a Yiddish word, davening.
Even the sound of the word gives a mental picture of movement. I have
been questioned many times about this custom. There are several
explanations, but the one most often told by the Jewish people
themselves is that they view the human spirit as a candle flame. The
word for spirit in Hebrew is ruach. Not only does it mean spirit, but
it also means wind. Therefore, if the person lost in prayer is in the
presence of the Ruach of God (the Spirit of God), their candle flame
will be set in motion as His Presence (Ruach-wind) moves across their
spirit. Thus, the "flickering" of their body is witnessed by their
swaying.

A secondary benefit of motion during prayer is that it focuses
concentration on the prayers themselves. Since Jews mostly pray in a
standing position, the movement also helps one to pray longer and to
keep the rhythm of the prayers they read, than if they just stood
fixed in one position. Jewish people believe that they must not pray
in a repetitious unthinking manner. The prayers must be said with
understanding and meaning each time they recite them. The movement
helps lock the mind of the one praying on his prayer. In Christian
congregations, as well, you can observe in times of worship or
prayer, people find that swaying is an almost unconscious reaction to
the feeling of the nearness of God.

The Hebrew word kavanah means with "direction and purpose." It is a
traditional exhortation to observant Jews that their prayers are
supposed to be said with kavanah. An important Hebrew concept at the
heart of kavanah, has to do with two Hebrew words, gadol and katan,
meaning "large" and "small." The noun form of these Hebrew words,
gadlut and katnut, represent concepts of a person's application of
spiritual lessons.

In light of our discussion of prayer, it simply means that a person
who prays routinely or by rote, prays with katnut, or "a small mind."
However, gadlut is one who possesses "greatness of mind," the goal at
the heart of kavanah, which is demanded of God's followers. In
prayer, kavanah is stressing the quality of our prayer, not the
quantity. This cannot happen if we are more interested in how others
perceive our prayers, or if we are reciting them absent-mindedly
while thinking about something else. Our focus in prayer needs to be
the Lord and our conversation and adoration of Him

http://www.ccarnet.org/journal/197bw.html

If you find a sheliah tzibbur who is especially frum, or at least
wishes to give that impression, as often as not s/he sways
rhythmically (shockeln) while reciting the liturgy. I cannot help but
wonder whether such cadenced movements, undoubtedly grounded in
mysticism, steer prayer from rational--though reverend--communication
with God, to purely emotional venues, void of virtual reality and
rationale. However, if the practitioner claims personal preference or
predilection, discussion is cut off before it begins. It is like the
response of because to the question of why. I know of
no other explanation for the swaying.

Emotional, as distinguished from rational, worship is usually
characterized by the
manifestations cited above. I am persuaded that genuine prayer must
contain as indispensable ingredients the elements of both reason and
emotion. Emotion is the soul's ladder to the Divine, but unless it is
based on reason, the rungs collapse.

===============================================================

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/891201_Shokeling.html

The Meaning of Shokeling

I am not aware of a fully appropriate English word to designate the
action. Nor, for that matter, can I think of a Hebrew word that
adequately captures the swaying motion of Jewish prayer.

It is to Yiddish that we must turn to get the precise verb, to
shokel. This fact would seem to indicate that the practice has a
particular association with the Eastern European milieu, and conjures
up images of the Hasidic shtiebelach of Poland and Russia.

In truth however, the picture of the Jew swaying in prayer is one
that has a long history throughout the Jewish world, and has often
been noted by outsiders as a peculiarity of Jewish worship.

Most Talmudic sources actually seem to recommend standing straight
and still while praying. These sources emphasize that one's
concentration during prayer should be absolute. From Ezekiel's
description of the angels of the divine chariot standing "with legs
straight" (Ezek. 1:7), the Talmudic rabbis learned that one should
hold one's feet rigidly together during prayer.

Jewish law tended to discourage excesses of bowing and prostration,
and took care to define those points in the service when bowing is
allowed.

It is related nonetheless that Rabbi Akiva, when praying privately,
would be left in one corner and be found later in another, because of
his constant bowing and prostrations.

==================================

http://www.killingthebuddha.com/critical_devotion/bostoner_rebbe.htm

My Hasid had begun his prayers, standing and swaying with his face up
against the wall to avoid distraction, but now he turned to me and
asked, "Do you need some help?" "No, thank you," I said, and dove
into the text, eager to prove that I knew my own way. How
inaccessible Jewish prayer, known familiarly by the hybrid Yiddish-
English word davening, must seem to the uninitiated. Here among the
Hasidim chaos reigned, each individual making his own way at a
muttering, breakneck pace through the intimately familiar liturgy.
The congregation was the sum total of individual voices. All would
suddenly synchronize at the few appointed moments of unison prayer.
I have heard this kind of davening before. Each time, when I close my
eyes to the sound, I imagine ocean waves or the tuning of a symphony
orchestra, the evocative discord of each instrument finding its own
tone, until all burst together into the harmonic confluence of the
music.

===============

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/Trivia_Index.html

http://www.harryc.com/jewish-essays.htm

http://pages.infinit.net/jackross/jt-judaism.htm

http://www.awordinyoureye.com/jokes32ndset.html

A very distinguished orthodox rabbi dies and goes to heaven. When he
arrives, he's greeted by an angel.

The angel says, "You'll be pleased to hear that in honour of your
arrival, a special banquet has been prepared. You will be served only
the finest meats, fish and pastries."

"Who prepared the banquet?" the rabbi asks.

"Why, none other than Moshe Rabeinu," answers the angel.

"And who is the mashgiach?" the rabbi asks.

"Why God himself," replies the angel.

"Thank you very much," says the Rabbi, "but I'll just have the fruit
plate, if you don't mind."
===================
www.geocities.com/odiecus/chistes/ ingles/JewishHumor4.htm

The Satmar Rebbe has died. He goes straight up to Gan Eden, where he
finds a large table surrounded by a great number of long-bearded men
studying Gemara, shokeling the whole time. On the table is an
enormous smorgasbord of delicacies: kishke, shlishke, kugel, roast
chicken, gefilte fish, and many others. As the men learn, they take
food off the table and eat it. One man approaches the Rebbe:

"Rebbe, at last you have joined us! All day, we study, and while we
study, we have a great banquet. Please join us. Would you like
something to eat?"

The rabbi looks at the man and asks him, sternly, "Who's the
mashgioch (the one who makes sure the meal is kosher)?"

The man looks at the Rebbe incredulously, and replies, almost with a
laugh, "This is Gan Eden! HaKodoysh Bareech Hee is the mashgioch!"

The Rebbe strokes his long, white beard for half an hour and shokels,
pondering the matter. All his students look at him eagerly, waiting
to hear what the Rebbe will say. Finally, the Rebbe speaks:

"I'll have the fruit," he says, "on a paper plate."

==================

PART 6 : A GURU FOR SEAN:
==============

Crispin: Sean says he is confused, and he is asking for a Guru
(though he writes a specific name - Michael Landon) to show him the
truth/path

Sitaram: Ha ha.... Michael Landon was in a movie.... which I did not
see, but in the movie Michael Landon is an angel or something...
Sean is making a joke

Crispin: yeah - exactly...... but he DESIRES that,..... he wants an
angel ( which I would call a Siddha ) to show him the path....thats
interesting to me. ........

Crispin: I have heard that it is said that in the Upanishads that a
blind cannot show the path to another blind ...... how much ever we
study and grasp all that we can - We all are still Blind to a finite
extent ......

Sitaram: True, I suppose. But who is it that shows (enlightens) your
Guru... or any Guru... you see the problem?

Crispin: No - it is said the Guru shows up when the time comes.... it
is our surrender and craving for the Guru that we place before the
Lord that will make us realize us the presence of the Guru near us

Sitaram: Well... except any physical guru is a person just like
us.... they were babies... they were sometimes naughty children....
they had sexual feelings to cope with... they got angry sometimes...
etc etc etc

Sitaram: Where shall we send Sean to find a Guru? And if there were a
Guru for Sean.... would Sean really want that? Sean has his own
stubborn ways!

Sitaram: A Guru is good for YOU, Crispin, because you are at a stage
of development where you SEEK a Guru.

Sitaram: Bhakti (devotion) to a personal form of God is good for
someone who is in the condition where they SEEK that....but it is not
good for all.

Sitaram: for others.... impersonal divinity, and jnana is what is
good, because they are at a stage to seek THAT

Crispin: Yes - true indeed

Sitaram: and we cannot send the entire world to one city in south
India,... not all 6 billion... (there would be a sewage problem)

Crispin: and neither am I ready... its just that the thought has
occurred and we seem to be in a similar state

Sitaram: you know... I am thinking of Siddhartha Gautama, the Buddha,
his final words at death

Sitaram: Seek with all diligence.... and be a lamp unto yourselves
(paraphrasing from memory)

Sitaram: Buddha did not advocate Gurus,.... yet today, millions think
of Buddha as their Guru (in a fashion)

Crispin: This doesn't mean that he never had a Guru ...... he might
have had one in His previous births...... Of course, what the Buddha
says is true - but the only aspect is that

Sitaram: even the 10th Sikh Guru proclaimed that there would be no
future human Gurus, but that the scriptures Adi Granth would be Guru.

Crispin: At certain stages for everybody, we do feel the need for
one ..... yes - those Gurus are different from the one u talk about -
they are Gurus to Humanity ...... but are not personal Gurus to
all...... but of course, I don't advocate that everyone should start
looking for one...

Crispin: a few yrs down the line - I would have dismissed this idea
too ..... but now - I feel I require one .....

Sitaram: in a sense, when we seek a personal Guru, or when we seek
grace and forgiveness and redemption through "salvation", we are
looking for an "easy way out"

Sitaram: I am not saying "do not seek a guru", I am saying "keep
things in perspective"

Crispin: EASY WAY OUT.... True.....Why would anyone want to take the
toughest route

Crispin: only if found ELIGIBLE... the Destination can never be
obtained

Crispin: I realized that Karma Yoga suited me better

Crispin: then realized that I falter even in that .... then towards
Bhakti
-

Crispin: again I realized that I wasn't able to adhere to my ways 24
hrs a day ..... I still had a lot of ego and I was taking quite a
few wrong decisions and sinning of my own

Crispin: that's when I felt the need for the Guru

Sitaram: a flame is ever flickering, wavering.... yet this
inconstancy does not mean that the flame give no light

Crispin: True, but I now know that the flame CAN give light

Sitaram: consciousness is energy

Sitaram: divinity is consciousness

Sitaram: it is the nature of energy to fluctuate (flicker)

Sitaram: seek that coming-to-be and passing-away which ITSELF does
not come to be nor pass away

Sitaram: an infinite circle has its center EVERYWHERE, but its
circumference NOWHERE

Crispin: ok so ?

Sitaram: you want easy answer

Crispin: you mean the easy way out ?

Sitaram: easy means easy... no work

Crispin: I never said no work

Sitaram: If a Guru is perfect... and the guru perfects YOU , then YOU
must become Guru

Crispin: EXACTLY

Crispin: True indeed

Sitaram: yes... Jesus says.... "those who come after me shall do
GREATER works than I

Crispin: who is a Guru now and who WAS perfected

Crispin: I have met him only once

Sitaram: and yet, it is said, a student may not be greater than his
teacher

Crispin: True - but the student can Equal the Teacher

Crispin: if the Teacher wills so

Crispin: and the student is Graced

Crispin: but I still dunno if He is my Guru.... if He is, I will get
to
realize that .....

Sitaram: daily life with ANYONE, a spouse, a parent, a child, a
teacher, means INTIMACY, and involves some measure of
disillusionment or disappointment

Sitaram: live with your Guru each day for 10 years, and then tell me
of his perfection

Crispin: Sure only that I am not yet ripe enough to do that

Sitaram: so, what would YOU like to tell Sean, to help him in
his "confusion"

Crispin: TO stick to Christ and have full faith in Him and not worry
about other concepts ..... and go about living his life doing his
duties and showing his love for Christ

Crispin: Because in His heart - Sean wants the angel's answer to be "
The Christian path is the right one" - so he should go ahead in his
path and not worry about others......

Sitaram: yes... you are correct I think

Crispin: and He will make progress

Sitaram: he is asking questions, but he wants to hear only a certain
answer

Crispin: Exactly..... something that even I want

Sitaram: many seek out someone who will tell them what they WANT to
hear

Crispin: even though I know what I say cant be generalized - its a
Huge BOOST to my EGO (atleast apparently) if someone on the other
side says something that I want to hear .........

Crispin: and I would consider him as my Guru....

Crispin: at the same time, its very very difficult to find one....
but hope lingers....

Sitaram: so, we look OUTSIDE of ourselves, and yet it is always SELF
that we seek

Crispin: yes - some external all knowing force that hurts and refines
the ego and dissolves it..... the experience that Vivekananda once
had from Ramakrishna, where Ramakrishna throws up an illusion where
Naren finds himself and his ego so puny in the entire Creation....
of course, it didn't cure him eternally but it prepared Naren to
become Swami Vivekananda

Sitaram: Good example, yet, who was Guru for Ramakrishna?

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